NIGHTWISH: Tuomas and Anette in Kerrang "We made a mistake with the tourschedule"

30.06.2009

NIGHTWISH keyboardist Tuomas Holopainen and vocalist Anette Olzon talks about their 2008 burnout in the latest issue of Kerrang-magazine. Anette also reveals that she has hired a "life-coach" to help her in the future.

On november 2008 Nightwish had to take a 3 month vacation cause the members were on the verge of burnout.

"We made some mistakes with our tourschedule, it was simply too tight. Last weeks were pure madness and each and every member in the band were basically madhouse-material at that point.", Tuomas remembers.

For Anette the tour was particularily hard cause she was constantly compared to Tarja Turunen who was the vocalist in Nightwish before Anette.

"I had zero time to recover. My body was totally exhausted. I was dead tired and when we were in South-America where fans are very fanatical, I got middle fingers and pictures of Tarja thrown at me", Anette explains.

During the 3 month break, Anette stayed in Sweden.

"Although I am a public person, I am not a superwoman. When for instance brazilian papers wrote that I was fighting with my ex-husband or that I was pregnant and had a miscarriage...well writings like those really hurt.", Anetta says.

I hired a "life-coach"

The whole band has learnt from the burnout. Anette has even hired herself a "life-coach".

"My coach only speaks about positive things. I meet the person once a week while I am at home but we also use Skype while I am on tour. Now I also have my own assistent. This is the first time that there is someone who looks after me. I don't want to be a diva who hides behind the security guards but it is good to have someone who says 'Go away' to people when it's necessary.", Anette continues.

Tuomas spent 2 weeks in Disney World.

Tuomas spent the 3 month break composing songs for their forthcoming album which will be released on 2010. He also went to Disney World in Florida for 2 weeks with his friends.

"That place is simply the best...after home of course", Tuomas who is known as a huge Disney-fan explains.

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Comments

LOLS WTF at Tuomas, 3months down time go to Disney land? Fuck that might as well meditate and reflect the past few months of shittiness.

Ravisk wrote on 30.06.2009 at 11:25
Since 26th no message about emotional break-downs...! I started to miss them, you know. But finally, we have here another article.

And I really have being missing NW discussing Tarja, too. They did not since 16.6. And as far as they use to do that every 8 days, they are late already.

So, Anette does not talk about bad wibe in band this time, as I see. This is the emotional-break-downs-are completely-normal-thing-we-all-have-being-tired version. Hm.

The only new thing is her new assistant. I wonder why she has only one manager and only one assistant? She si so shy and down-to-earth and modest and brave....

Any other megastar would have at least four assistants, do not you think so? How very brave and down-to-earth and modest it is from her to be able to manage with one personal manager, one personal assistant and band´s managment! Only!

You know, guys, we all should think about ourselves, too, and do something with our lifes.

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 11:32
to Ravisk: It is quite logical, do not you think so? He is chosing a place for Nightwish there. :-)

They are going to be a part of exhibition, but they can not decide whether they will be placed next to Snow Queen or next to pirates..

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 11:34
God she is so ridiculous...She should be ashamed that she talks like that for people.Ms Olzon,how do you think people felt when you insulted their countries?See how it is.

No wonder why people were showing them the middle finger.They accused them for her emotional break down in Brazil.

She really disgusts me.When Tarja was asked about Anette's breakdown in Brazil,she said that she supports her and she doesn't approve any kind of attack,even in her name.

But no, the supposedly "sweet,humble,cute,down-to-earth" Anette chose to accuse Tarja's fans and indirectly,Tarja herself for her own breakdown and not being able to deal with what SHE chose to become.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 11:54
"pictures of Tarja thrown at me"

Grow up then,gather them,make a freaking collection and sell it through your blog.I'm sure you'll earn thousands from your teenage fan-girls.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 11:57
And that about the life-coach...God,you would thought that a middle-aged woman with a kid and a career(laughs) would be able to deal with her problems(what problems?) by herself.

But then,NW fangirls attack on Tarja who has Marcelo(only him) next to her,to help and protect her.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:02
Legeon, honestly, what would be a week without NW accusing Tarja?
And well, NATURALLY they will get middle fingers in Barzil, whenever they will go there. I would say they will receive middle fingures in Greece, too.

That will make much more headlines and articles like this one.
And we will have no week without emotional breakdowns or/and Tarja accusations.
Looking forward to future full of NW!

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:03
Legeon: life couch is not news, assistant is.

I wonder what with is he assisting her exactly? She is supposed to be vocalist - so maybe he is keeping her a handbag while she is singing.

Tour is organized by band managers. Her webpage, bills, hairdresser tec by her personal manager. They live in hotel, so I suspect hotel staff to cook for her.

So, what she needs to assist with???

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:08
mermaid,i didn't know for a life-coach,to be honest.

I cannot imagine why she would need an assistant.She supposedly hired her manager to take care things for her,so what an assistant does?

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:17
Maybe she is referring to her manager as her assistant? It would be weird to think she has a manager, life-coach and also an assistant.

Tina wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:20
My coach only speaks about positive things. I meet the person once a week while I am at home but we also use Skype while I am on tour.
Now I also have my own assistent....
I don't want to be a diva who hides behind the security guards but it is good to have someone who says 'Go away' to people when it's necessary.", Anette continues.

Well, there is clearly her personal manager. Then life couch she meets ONCE PER WEEK when she is at HOME. Then she has an assistant who is clearly with her ON TOUR - otherwise he would not be able to ask people to "go away when necessary".

Or do you think that it is her couch from Sweden who ask people to go away when she is in Italy? Like though Skype?

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:38
to Legeon: keeps her handbag while she is singing, obviously.

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:39
to Tina: And that is my point - only three people plus band´s managers - it can not be enough.

She is dangeruosly shy, humble and down to Earth.

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:43
I wonder whether this was not the real reason why Tarja failed as their singer - she has her won manager only.

Maybe if she would be much more down-to-Earth and hire a life-couch and an assistant she might be still in Nightwish.

That is Diva for you - she thought too much of herself and tired to manage WITHOUT a life-couch and an assistant.

What is, off course, impossible.

That is why her greed became one of reasons to kick her out.

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 12:50
Now I am not sure, whether it was Legeon or TheSeer but some of you mentioned incident in Greece as a cash problem.

Look in here: http://www.last.fm/user/creepdeath/journal/2008/04/18/b79bo_nightwish_interview_at_kerrang!__%22no_band_should_play_in_greece%22

In the end you will find out that: ANETTE: ?Getting up on stage and developing myself into being this rock bitch up there is probably the biggest thing. But I actually wanted to trash a TV in Greece, I was so angry ? no band should play in Greece, we got so fucked over- and the guys were like, ?Throw the TV in the pool, you?ve not done that before!? But then I remembered I?m a civilized person and a mum, and I shouldn?t really do things like that.? (laughs)

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 13:05
Yes mermaid,one of the problems that NW(and all bands in that festival) faced was that they weren't paid on time,and i explained that there was going on a big strike these days in Greece,and no one could reach money on the bank.I wasn't paid too.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 13:39
to Legeon: so you see, now, how mature NW was - in situation like this.

Did you throw your TV in your pool? Or did your assistant do that for you?

:-)

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 13:44
mermaid: yes,i believe that everyone should now consider me a "greedy diva" because i try-and managed-to deal with this problem alone without emotional outbreaks and throwing furniture that doesn't belong to me out of the window.
It was her first time on tour,first time with a big band doing a large tour,she didn't know what kind of problems all bands face when touring in different countries,it was her first time in Greece,and she realized from that one show that ALL organizers in Greece suck big time.

That's the humble,sweet and kind NW singer.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 13:54
Legeon, Mermaid....get a room both of you!

OceanWithin wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:02
Exactly, Legeon and you forgot one thing - she was so kind as to warn the rest of the world ("No band should go there!")

Very classy of her, too.

But now it is the time for both of us to learn a lesson: Hire yourself a life-couch and an assistant. Next time your boss will not pay you in time just having so lame excuse, ask your life-couch to go and show him a middle finger while your assistant will be throwing his TV in his pool...

Acually, for the rest of you here, who did not recognize we are just having fun
- Greece is a beautifull country - I visited few times and seriously it is worth it to go there... though Anette suggest you otherwise.

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:04
@ OceanWithin

Any other words of wisdom from the blindfolded NW fans?

The funny thing is that when YOU talk,praising Anette and how much you love her and how gorgeous she is and how talented and shy Tuomas is,it is just fine.
When we criticize them,we need to get a room.
It's called "discussion".And he is nice to meet you.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:08
to Oceanwithin: You do not like Greece, too?
Or you think that one manager + one assistant + one life couch + band´s management should be enough?

Do not hesitate, Oceanwithin, and elaborate. Share your opinions and feelings and do not be so short - do not be so shy, either.

i think we both, Legeon and me, would like to know how do you feel about these things?

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:10
Legeon, let Oceanwithin explain his position - I REALLY would like to hear from one of die-hards their feedback on this issue.

Might be very educative. mainly because this time we are both (you and me) on Anette´s side, remember. We fully support her decission and admire her as such.

So, what could they say?

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:13
mermaid you unerve me with you stalker qualities. get a life

anon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:24
to Akon:

what do you mean by stalker qualities? that I can read? It might be stressing for you, Akon I can even write.

And as far as you are coming to this page, you have stalker qualities and problems to get some life, too.

(or maybe somebody else is doing the reading/writing for you - then it is COMPLETELY other thing, sure)

So, guys, who dare to critize our georgeous Anette this time, when we (Legeon and me) are truly supporting her?

mermaid wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:32
Yeah, get a life

Zyan wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:35
People telling other people to get a life should get a life.

Zack T. wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:49
When Tuomas' fan girls hysterically attack Tarja,calling her a diva that hurt their "ocean soul",no one told them to get a life.

But when people are fed up with Anette's lame efforts to convince as that she is humble and sweet,when at the time she insults fans of South America,they need to get a room of a life.

Let me tell you something-we HAVE lives.And pretty good ones too.But every now and then we need to relax with some laughs and funny stuff-and NW offers that to us.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:58
People telling other people, which telling other people to get a life, to get a life should get a life.

Zyan wrote on 30.06.2009 at 14:59
If mermaid and me are the stalkers,what are Anette and NW(that's how they are mentioned in her site) grabbing EVERY freaking chance to talk about Tarja and their neurological problems?

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:00
Zyan

People who tell people who actually DISCUSS in this page to get a life,are the ones to get a life because they spend their time of their "life" to attack people without even trying to discuss and answer with REAL arguments.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:03
No I do not argue... get a life

Zyan wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:04
NW fans whose best shot of statement is "get a life"

why am i NOT surprised?

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:10
This conversation is really getting out of hand imo...Tarja widows against NW fans...what a sad combination.

Tina wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:25
mermaid, Legeon, please, DON'T get a life... my working day is a lot funnier with your comments =D
i love all this conspiracy theories you have!! i laught every time hehehe

Lumikki wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:30
I don't like Anette that much. I think her stagepresence is terrible and she is a comple failure on entertaining the fans. But let's not forget that Tarja was exactly the same...hardly a frontfigure in a band. Thank Gods for Marco though!

Oceansoul wrote on 30.06.2009 at 15:30
@MetalFromFinland: you do really have to print some comments and publish a "Best Of" Book...seriously!

OceanWithin wrote on 30.06.2009 at 16:33
@OceanWithin

We have a policy what kind of comments we approve. People are entitled to their opinions and we really do draw the line on personal insults. When people start bashing other people by using harsh language, those will be moderated away.

For instance the comments on this particular newsitem are clearly between Tarja-fans and NW-fans and in my opinion the conversation has been civil, maybe a bit childish but still civil. Far be it from us to prevent people from addressing their own opinions.

Me personally enjoy reading these things cause some people take things very seriously. And make no mistake...we might make a Best Of-collection someday ;)

But in the meanwhile...let's just have fun shall we?

Tero Tolkki
Metal From Finland

MFF Staff wrote on 30.06.2009 at 16:50
@ OceanWithin

Yes,and at least that book will be filled with comments with arguments and facts,but not even one of blindfolded NW fans' one line "get a life".

Very intellectual people indeed.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 16:51
@Legeon

Nobody is blaming Tarja and nobody is insulting anyone's country. She simply said that Brazil (and south america in general) has very enthousiastic fans. It's no secret that Brazil is one of the most fanatical countries in the world when it comes to music. I don't see how that's an insult.

And she's not blaming Tarja in any way...She simply said that some people were showing middle fingers and throwing pictures or Tarja. Last time I checked, that's a pretty rude thing to do, not to mention downright mean.

And if you read Anette's blog you'd know she really only has one manager/assistant person named Mimi, who seems like a very rational and respectable person.

Max wrote on 30.06.2009 at 17:27
Wtf 2 weeks in Disneyland? I spent one day there and it was painful...and I was 11 years old. I don't know why a grown man would like to spend to weeks there?I use like NW but now its like they have so many problems about so many things ....they should talk more about music and not about their ex-singer.

maricela wrote on 30.06.2009 at 17:33
I heard about the Greece incident but I never knew what Anette actually said. Thanks for posting that mermaid! That really enlightened me! But to come to a conclusion about that, I personally believe that it was not directed towards the fans, but the promoters and the people who sponsered them. STILL, she should think about what she says before saying them! That will anger fans of that country and will further tarnish the image of NW. I am not a Tarjaholic, but I know that Tarja has class and would never say ANYTHING like that! Wow. That was really low of Anette to say that especially when the media will get a hold of it because now that will be published everywhere! Hiring a "life coach" is silly too at this point because at 37, she should know what to say in public when fronting a big named band like NW. Besides, if she knew what was expected of her, she should have hired him upon arrival in the band anyways! I don't hate Anette, but I think that comment was just wrong. Her and the band really need to watch their mouths! :p

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 17:58
I'm sick to death of these endless talks. You have no idea how the people you talk about don't give a damn of all that shit dumped on the Net. You're just a part of the painful boring big machinery for them. It's sad how NW, Anette, Tarja and Co. use the psychological problems and spare time of some of their lazy fanatic listeners to gain more visibility on the web. In Africa the poor eat biscuits of mud, in Occident they feed on forums and blogs. These people don?t care who you are, what you think. Actually we?re just some statistics for them, numbers displayed on counters, a constant supply of disposable goods to feed their ego and business. Their music is great but it swims in the mud. This is not as degrading as worshipping a well-known pedophile like Michael Jackson, but it?s still about losing yourself.

Z. wrote on 30.06.2009 at 17:59
NW's so called interviews and comments are getting more pathetic with each day. Sad...

Mermaid, Legeon you two are priceless :)

Thunder wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:14
Z.

Actually Tarja NEVER uses psychological issues to grab media's and fans' attention,it's Anette that comes every week with her neurological issues and her inability to deal with her problems without a life-coach and an hypnotize professional.
And i couldn't care less if they see this comments or not.We can't change the world too,so why don't we stop talking about poverty,hunger,AIDS,criminals and politicians?

Max

I read her blog every day.What does her assistant's character have to do with the topic?
You must be blind NOT to see that she insulted South America fans.
And by saying all that about Tarja,she manages to harm Tarja,because ALL her fan girls now will say how bastards Tarja's fans are and eventually,they will think that even Tarja makes them do that.I've seen it.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:18
@ OceanWithin

There is a reason why Legeon, mermaid, myself, are others are all here right now. We are frustrated fans of what used to be an amazing band. If you guys can't see what this band has done to themselves, than you truely are blindfolded! They have alot of issues and this one is no exception!

@ Z.

NW and Michael Jackson both use(d) to media to gain further attention toward themselves. In a way, they are quite similar that way, but Michael had further problems than NW even. I am not a fan of MJ, but he did have it pretty rough when he was young. Tuomas didn't have a rough life growing up so he should have no excuse, at least that is what I think.

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:27
Wow what drama here!!! This is a new article and we already have 46 comments!!!!!! WOOT!!

@MFF
Isn't it hilarious that Nightwish has so many comments on their articles and the other bands hardly have any! XD

JT wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:41
Nightwish just seems to keep spiraling down fast :(
That place is simply the best... haha wtf

Hayley wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:45
@JT

I am starting to think we should have banneradds on all Nightwish news!

Well seriously it seems that Nightwish at the moment is what raises emotions and conversation amongst people. Sometime ago it was Stratovarius but now it's Nightwish.

Tero Tolkki
Metal From Finland

MFF Staff wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:47
@ JT

It's because the other bands BEHAVE like bands and not like Drama Queens.

It's the band that causes the drama with what they say and do,not us.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 18:51
@ Legeon

I agree. They should have a new soap opera in the daytime on NBC called "The Nightwish I Once Had". It would star Tuomas as the frustrated ex-husband, Tarja as his divorced wife, Anette as his mistress, Marco as the drunken fool, and Jukka and Emppu as the random guys on the show (cuz every soap has that you know XD). Don't take this seriously, this is just a joke to lighten up the situation! LOL!!!!!

But seriously, they do act like drama queens!

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:01
WTF are people talking about here????!!!!

people slagging off anette ... she never directly insulted tarja u numnut! actually she said she wanted to meet her and said she seemed like a nice person which is very non-judgmental of her considering the bitching that might have gone on....

and to the brazil faux pas... why he fuck dont YOU travel a busy squedule and fly to brazil do a live show with fans shouting abuse at you and see how you deal with it!

remember people shes a human not a machine and i think she deserves a PA and a coach

remember what tarja would have done? had her husband and that romanian voodoo geezer do EVERYTHING for her she would have demanded her own seperate entourage from the band inc. didfferant flights and hotels seperate from the band... is annette doing that ... NO!

Jack UK wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:10
So Maestro and Anette claim "we made a mistake in the tour schedule". I'm pretty sure Anette was asked nothing when it comes to the tour schedule, so that "we" probably goes for Maestro and the voices in his head. But if they were wrong, does that mean that Diva and Mafioso were right? *shock*

Legeon said: "I cannot imagine why she would need an assistant.She supposedly hired her manager to take care things for her,so what an assistant does?"

Telling people "Go away!" when "it is necessary" according to Anette's words. And she adds "I don't want to be a diva". Fear NOT Anette, you are OFF that path.

"My coach only speaks about positive things."

I can already imagine it: "Anette you're absolutely great, very talented and NOT fat at all!". XD

Oceansoul said: "I don't like Anette that much. I think her stagepresence is terrible and she is a comple failure on entertaining the fans. But let's not forget that Tarja was exactly the same..."

Except that she had only a personal manager while Anette has a personal manager, a life coach and an assistant. But except for that petty thing, you are SO right Oceansoul, Tarja was EXACTLY THE SAME as Anette.

maricela said: "Wtf 2 weeks in Disneyland? I spent one day there and it was painful...and I was 11 years old. I don't know why a grown man would like to spend to weeks there?"

He has to visit his girlfirend Belle. Else she might leave him. Via open letter.

James said: "I am not a Tarjaholic, but I know that Tarja has class and would never say ANYTHING like that!"

I think you're wrong. We have already learnt from Oceansoul that Tarja was EXACTLY THE SAME as Anette.

TheSeer wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:13
Jack UK said: "remember what tarja would have done? had her husband and that romanian voodoo geezer do EVERYTHING for her she would have demanded her own seperate entourage from the band inc. didfferant flights and hotels seperate from the band... is annette doing that ... NO!"

Give her some time Jack. She is only 2 years with the band.

TheSeer wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:21
To: James
What the hell? An NBC daytime show?!? Jeez don't you have anything better to do than to rip on Nightwish like this? If you don't like Nightwish anymore, go listen to another band! The same goes to the rest of you!! >:(

EJ wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:23
@ Jack UK

Don't believe everything the band says.The ONLY different thing Tarja wanted was a dressing room in backstage,which sounds totally normal considering that she has to dress and change.Anette can go to a show wearing her clothes,but Tarja must change INSIDE the venue,cause she can't just walk in the streets wearing what she wears on stage!
And how would Anette demand such things?She didn't have any experience of touring and performing so she didn't have any demands.But she does now,showing that Tarja's demands weren't so outrageous after all.

Tarja proposed that ALL members should fly,but guys preferred to tour with the bus to be able to party and drink every night,even Anette admitted that she doesn't like that.

Don't forget that Tarja was personally attacked in Argentina but she didn't go out saying how much of bastards people are there.

@ TheSeer: your comment really made my day but extremely the one about Bella XD

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:33
They almost killed artistically someone with those diva allegation, looks like if they are not careful they just as might commit artistic suicide for the some reasons.
Some will say it will poetic justice..

Thunder wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:37
Lol, Jack! Tarja NEVER had separate entourage, separate hotel NOR separate flights. This is indeed quite fishy, because the open letter worded things in a deliberately ambiguous way: when possible, Tarja prefered travelling 2 hours by plane (normal planes, never business class) instead of 14 hours by bus: when the guys felt like they wanted to fly with her instead of being drunk on the road they were free to join the SAME flight. They NEVER travelled by different planes. Oh, and I should remind you that this extensive travelling by bus was one of the main causes of Anette's severe illness one year ago, when they had to cancel many gigs. Please update yourself before speaking.

tluesi wrote on 30.06.2009 at 19:41
Legeon said: "@ TheSeer: your comment really made my day but extremely the one about Bella XD"

Thanks. Your and mermaid's comments do the same to me. As someone already said, PLEASE don't get a life.

@MFF: I think you should make a site-section "Hot topics" or something like that, where you would put all the articles with more than, let's say 50 comments, to be visible all the time. ;-)

tluesi said: "Lol, Jack! Tarja NEVER had separate entourage, separate hotel NOR separate flights. This is indeed quite fishy, because the open letter worded things in a deliberately ambiguous way: when possible, Tarja prefered travelling 2 hours by plane (normal planes, never business class) instead of 14 hours by bus: when the guys felt like they wanted to fly with her instead of being drunk on the road they were free to join the SAME flight."

Being drunk is not the only thing they did in those buses. According to that Maestro & Diva & Mafioso Biography Book they were also puting various spices and chilli sauces on their penises to see who can endure longer, and also puting various things like cuccumbers and bananas in their assholes. And when Tarja doesn't want to travel in such buses she is evil diva.

TheSeer wrote on 30.06.2009 at 20:09
Thunder

AMEN!!!
Those in-love-with-Tuomas fan girl always let aside that their precious "shy and humble poet" actually DENIGRATED Tarja and her reputation to the whole world.
One of the reasons that Tarja has less fans than NW is because many NW fans believed his letter.

Tarja could actually sue them for that letter.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 20:12
Oh and guys,some more news:

Anette said in her blog:
"I can also inform you that there soon will be my own merchandise sold on the web site"

Her own merchandise???

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 20:14
ok... here we go again!!
don't they really have anything else to do?
I think they also need to hire some novelist or something so they can invent better things to say. If it wasn't for all the comments that come with them (whenever I have time, I have a laugh reading them) I would already be sick and tired of this articles that ALWAYS say the same things...
let's hope that, at least, their next cd is something acceptable...

oh, and I liked that idea about the tv soap opera! I think it shows exactly how things look to me...

and to those who are upset because of the people discussing it, I gotta say this, too:
look, I am a Tarja fan, I admit it; but I became a Tarja fan through Nightwish. when Tarja was (not very nicely) asked to leave,, I thought there was something strange. Not only because of what I've seen of her in public, but because of what had already happened with Sami, some years before. But I said, ok. I was on nobody's side, so I waited to see who the new singer would be. I never thought she was great, but I thought that if she was gonna behave as a professional, it would be alright. she would improve with time. and then, they satrted with all these drama about tarja being the source of all evil and doing some kind of voodoo thing on us, and having all the same problems all over again and trying to hide it so we wouldn't realize they had lied because the real thing was that, after around ten years of Nightwish, Tuomas realized that he had let Tarja be more than just their singer. In many counties, to talk about Nightwish and Tarja was exactrly the same. So he needed to be in the front again, and be important and talked of. And so he invented all this terrible drama, blaming Tarja (and Marcelo) of many things we will never know if they were real or not.
What I mean is. I used to be a Nightwish fan. But when they started behaving as highschool adolescents they lost all the respect they deserved, at least for me.

and now... I'd better return to my life.
And for the rest: go on discusing this. It's healthy! I mean it!!

lube wrote on 30.06.2009 at 20:28
hey guys I have a REAL questions about NW: how will be the next album?
If we come on MFF is to have informations about music not for the behaviour of MORTALpeople. I know that I speak in the wind and that tommorow mermaid and legeon and james and others people will be back. It's sad because it's people like you who are drama king/queen, who doesn't discuss and are insulting , it's people like you who are killing NW.

marc wrote on 30.06.2009 at 20:59
marc said: "hey guys I have a REAL questions about NW: how will be the next album? "

You sure there will be next NW album?

TheSeer wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:08
@ marc

Yes,we are the Drama Queens.Because of course,we are the artists that still talk about their previous singer,which we fired via an open letter denigrating her calling her a diva.We are the ones abandoning shows for having nervous breakdowns and accusing fans for that.
We are the ones that forgot what means to be a band and the only thing we care about is to give interviews even when our next album will not be here for a year and a half,singing with water companies and running blogs to advertise our clothing sponsors.

Epic fail.

And tell me EXACTLY where we insulted them.REAL insults,not doing a critique that sensitive NW fans can't take.

How are we,3 people somewhere in the net with only power a computer,killing the band?
You can see in many people's comments that this band decided to commit suicide many years ago.And now they are dying.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:09
@ marc

And answering your question about how the next album will be (to see that we care ALSO about the music,not the news) Tuomas said that it will based on Anette's voice,and more suitable to her style.
He also said that it will be a big twist,and that they will need a lot of time,effort and money to pull it off.

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:12
@ marc : instrumental !!!

TheTongue wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:12
I don't think Anette had bad faith saying those things about Greece, although I understand why many people would find it insulting to the country. Even so, I have to say it's kind of when the guys in the band (esp. Marco) were making insulting remarks about Marcelo being from Argentina, yet they came back to play and said that they have friends here as well and I doubt anyone felt insulted, as we understood their anger was targeted to one particular person (although in that case, it was inappropiate/inmature how they used his nationality as an insult, yet Anette hasn't used the term "greek" to diminish anybody in particular, or as an excuse to belittle anyone, as far as I know).
And Tuomas... well, let's just say that now that Michael Jackson's gone the world needs another "tortured eccentric childhood/innocence-obsessed genius" (sorry, mermaid, Maestro) to fill in his shoes (although I admit I deeply respect them both as artists, they're a bit over the top in certain aspects).

Blackwood wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:15
@ TheSeer

"You sure there will be next NW album?"

That is up for a debate. The way NW is going, who knows?

Legeon said something interesting:

"Tarja proposed that ALL members should fly,but guys preferred to tour with the bus to be able to party and drink every night,even Anette admitted that she doesn't like that."

Well that's rock n'roll for ya! A lot of rock/metal bands do this, it is a common thing. That is what these guys live for; all the sex, the drugs and the parties that go with it on the road. That is just a common fact and Anette will just have to deal with it because that is what these guys want to do. (same goes with Tarja.)

@ marc

No, I think NW is killing themselves, not their fans. The fans are just really pissed off right now with the band. That will probably lead them to their ultimate demise.

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:20
@ marc

If they do have a new album, judging my their progression and their desire to become more mainstream, it will probably be just like a typical female-fronted rock/pop album; overdone, boring, and the feeling of "I already heard that before" is what it will sound like (unless Tuomas has something up his sleeve). NW's goal is to become more mainstream in the United States, and it's obvious. It is the only country where NW is not popular in yet. (unless it's a small country that no one goes to or sees). I am very curious to hear it.

btw, when is the next Wintersun album coming out!!! I want "Time" now!! XD

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:27
If there is to be new Nightwish album, the thing I'm most curious about are THE LYRICS. After 10 years of lovelorn poses and metaphorical suicides, I'm really curious what next is to come.

TheSeer wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:58
"They almost killed artistically someone with those diva allegation, looks like if they are not careful they just as might commit artistic suicide for the some reasons.
Some will say it will poetic justice.."

Amen +1

What goes around comes around. Let's just wait and watch.

Mwaha wrote on 30.06.2009 at 21:59
I think their tight tourschedule has been problem for many years and I'm wondering why they admit it as late as now and didn't learn from mistakes of Once tour. But touring for 2 years, even with some little breaks is psychical suicide anyway. I think the whole situation with the band is going out of hand...again.
And btw. what's wrong with Disneyland? :) If you think that this guy who looks like Jack Sparrow with a fancy hat and writes lyrics about owls, oceans and night quests for magic chests should behave more mature, let me tell you, you are a fool ;)

CrusT wrote on 30.06.2009 at 22:48
Guys,just another quote Anette's blog,giving advice to someone asking what should someone who wants to be a singer do:
"Get yourself a good manager and see to that you get paid for everything"

LOL.Isn't this THE SAME THING NW kicked Tarja out???

And more:
"Dont trust anyone but yourself. "

Obviously,don't trust anyone applies to don't trust your band mates too :P

Legeon wrote on 30.06.2009 at 23:09
"They almost killed artistically someone with those diva allegation, looks like if they are not careful they just as might commit artistic suicide for the some reasons.
Some will say it will poetic justice.."

That is the best comment I have heard so far. That describes NW perfectly. I could not have said it any better!

James wrote on 30.06.2009 at 23:31
I wouldn't be surprised to learn one day that, in the past, the young Tuomas sadly confused Neverland with Disneyland, I mean it could explain many things, some of his psychological problems, lyrics, and the whole end of innocence stuff... even the band's name, you know what I mean..... :/

TT wrote on 01.07.2009 at 00:05
The Tolkien trilogy is a leaflet compared to NW story.

TT wrote on 01.07.2009 at 00:22
Tuomas doesnt have any psychological problems. He just wants to feel like a child again. Think of it like Micheal Jackson and Neverland. Tuomas and Disneyland...the only difference is that the children with no clothes on will be at the waterpark.

Hayley wrote on 01.07.2009 at 00:32
I can see...
They need scandal again, sad but true... Tuomas always blame Tarja about everithing, They should talk only about their new album and NO about things what happend 1.5 years ago.

And this sound very racist to me. Get a Life Tuomas and leave Tarja alone. That happend 4 years ago!!!!!!!!

And Anette is just saying what Tuomas watn cse in the last article here she was very diferent in her declarations.

Tuomas is avery "Sick" man.........

Oh wrote on 01.07.2009 at 02:12
LOLS you know what, Tuomas really needs to grow up, like screw Disneyland, play some Warcraft or World Of Warcraft, cause really Disney stuff meh really pisses me off.

Oh well I would laugh at em if they were to Disband cause seriously Tuomas he's the Diva in the whole mess that he created. He just dug his own grave.

Ok enough of it gonna listen to Bodom's Sixpounder

Ravisk wrote on 01.07.2009 at 06:40
A life coach? You've got to be kidding... Now she has her own manger, an assistant and a life coach that's not diva behavior at all...........

Esme wrote on 01.07.2009 at 07:36
Nightwish should re-name to "Theatre of tragedy 2".
It is really comfortable to blame Tarja for everything, since she doesn´t want to talk about Nightwish anymore -> she will not defend herself...
I hope Tuomas wrote some songs in Disneyworld.The lyics of these songs may show his mental level.

Daniela wrote on 01.07.2009 at 09:38
mermaid said: "So, Anette does not talk about bad wibe in band this time, as I see. This is the emotional-break-downs-are completely-normal-thing-we-all-have-being-tired version. Hm. "

That's because this interview was made together with Maestro. She cannot tell in front of him that she "doesn't love him but is trying to respect him". They have communication problems, remember? Meaning that whenever they talk eye-to-eye everything is PERFECT. SOOOOOOOOOOO perfect they even need to hug themselves (remember that Zagreb interview?). Maestro is the same, he can tell in Greek Metal Hammer that Anette will be kicked after Hartwall Arena Gig but I wouldn't be surprised to learn he hasn't told it to Anette yet. Communication problems as I've already said. He will probably be forced to write an open letter one more time. I wish him the luck with it, and that it wouldn't be so devastating for him as the previous one he wrote.

@mermaid: imagine a world where EVERYONE would have a communication problem. So whenever someone needs to say something not that pleasant to the people around him, he would have to resort to writing an open letter. That would be SO MUCH better world don't you think so? And Maestro would be so respected in that world. Like a new Jesus. The one who showed THE WAY to the mankind.

TheSeer wrote on 01.07.2009 at 12:27
@TheSeer

Yes,Anette said yesterday in her blog to someone asking for advice for those who want to become singers:"don't trust anyone".
I suppose that includes band mates too...

Also,Tuomas in Greek Metal Hammer said that she was TOO rude to say these things about Greece.

btw,are you Greek?If you don't want to answer in English because you don't want to reveal in answer in Greek :)

Legeon wrote on 01.07.2009 at 12:35
TT said: "I wouldn't be surprised to learn one day that, in the past, the young Tuomas sadly confused Neverland with Disneyland, I mean it could explain many things, some of his psychological problems, lyrics, and the whole end of innocence stuff... even the band's name, you know what I mean..... :/"

That would also explain why our Maestro loves only women who do NOT exist on this planet, but only in cartoons and "mystical next doors". And he also "loves" certain existing ones but ONLY when he cannot have them because they are happily in love to "serpents from heaven". But when he can have them he doesn't love them and would allow them being raped 1 meter away from him.

@Legeon: no I'm not from Greek. I come from Serbia but the last 2 years I've been living in Berlin. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 01.07.2009 at 12:50
Tuomas and the rest of NW guys are SOOO bitter to Tarja. They will never let her go, she will remain in their minds all the time. :))) Bad conscience perhaps?

Rocky wrote on 01.07.2009 at 12:56
TheSeer: ok,then,i was just surprised you know so many things about Greek Metal Hammer :)

But in conclusion,we see a band in decomposition.
They have communication problems,they stab each other in the back saying different things,they are tired and they don't even play their own songs correctly.

Do all that ring you any bells guys?No communication,stabbing in the back?...
Ever heard of "Once Tour"?

Legeon wrote on 01.07.2009 at 13:00
Legeon said: "Do all that ring you any bells guys?"

Poor Ocean Soul, VICTIM again...

TheSeer wrote on 01.07.2009 at 13:07
It's sad to see that in 2 years since Tuomas and Anette have been the front faces of Nw they managed to become such caricatural figures.
Watching Nw now is like watching it in a cracked mirror, the grotesque is always around the corner.

Thunder wrote on 01.07.2009 at 14:09
Any NW story and you see the same names constantly criticising Anette - we get it! You prefer Tarja.

Now move along.

Has it occurred to any of you that the reason this keeps coming up in interviews is because the media keep asking them???

Sez wrote on 01.07.2009 at 14:59
Sez said: "Any NW story and you see the same names constantly criticising Anette "

I think that you're missing the point. Criticising Tuomas is what most of us are doing in the first place. Anette is just a bonus.

TheSeer wrote on 01.07.2009 at 15:12
@Sez: It's not only about prefering Tarja. It's all about justice, which btw has being made by life, god or whatever...

@ Legeon and The Seer: Keep bringing fangirls to real life, guys!

Mwaha wrote on 01.07.2009 at 15:29
"I wouldn't be surprised to learn one day that, in the past, the young Tuomas sadly confused Neverland with Disneyland, I mean it could explain many things, some of his psychological problems, lyrics, and the whole end of innocence stuff... even the band's name, you know what I mean."

the only people with psychological problems here are you...sick people judging others people life and where the hell they want to spend time.
So...grown up people who like Disney should be considered freaks of nature? LOL that's utterly ridiculous.
Sorry to say but from the level of your "clever" discussions , you just show that you are all a bunch of repressed kids and not even half the intelligence of Tuomas Holopainen .

Now call me presumptious , ass-licker, moron whatever you want XD. I'll give you , closed-minded twats, credit that you are good for some laughing. XD

Au revoir

Phantom wrote on 01.07.2009 at 18:51
I'd like also to remind you that Tarja wouldn't be where she is now without "the Freak Holopainen" , if he wouldn't have asked her to join the band and composed those song she sings.

So..you hypocrites, spend time bitching how much NW fans annoy you critizing Tarja (and I totally agree) but at the same time you like to do the same..actually even worse...daring to judge Tuomas personal life like you are all his psychologist lol.

Phantom wrote on 01.07.2009 at 19:01
@Phantom,

Ask you rather what would have become NW if Anette had been their former singer.... but this is an old debate... Tarja has her skills just like Tuomas has his, they were perfect together, but for music only. Sincerely, I really would like to see a happy NW just like Tarja seems to be in her solo project. Now, I'm sad to think that Tuomas and NW are "trapped" with that Anette, that was definitively a bad choice (again!) from Tuomas, unless, of course, if it was just another strategy to keep the attention on them, in this case Tuomas is a genius and has inaugurated a new way to promote freely musical bands...

TT wrote on 01.07.2009 at 20:22
@TT , clearly you didn't read my previous posts.

"Ask you rather what would have become NW if Anette had been their former singer.... but this is an old debate."

pfft..who said that I think NW would have been at their same level without Tarja? No, I don't think they would have been that special with Anette (as a matter of fact I prefer the old line up with Tarja) . But the fact is that Tarja popularity is 50 % (if not even more) derived by her success with NW and casually a certain "Freak Holopainen" composed 90 % of NW music and worked his ass off to promote the band while at that time Tarja's main goal was becoming a classical singer (I'm not blaming her for this, it was her dream) . So the band maybe "ruined" her classical career but at the same time, thanks to NW, she has a much more "easy" and a more economically advantegeous career.

Phantom wrote on 01.07.2009 at 21:29
@TT , Anette has not being chosen by Tuomas himself. And the fact the band is not happy (and I'd like to see a better-happy-without ridiculous drama-band too) does not depend just by Anette (actually Anette is more like the new victim ) ..it depends on the fact things are too fucked up, they tour too much, they lost the purpose they had at the beginning , everything is much bigger and there are more responsabilities and pressure (basically the same situation of every big band which has a certain commercial success) . Add the fact the communication in this band sucks .

Phantom wrote on 01.07.2009 at 21:32
As always I agree with Legeon, with The Seer and with Mermaid... (though I don't agree with you Mermaid every single time :P) You guys said it everything.. there's nearly nothing more to add...except this part from the Greek Metal hammer interview with Tuomas since there's so much talk about it...:
J: Do you have any ideas on the new album?
T: I have already started preparing some things. We have much time to work on the new album though. When all this comes to an end, we have to meet each other and discuss, to see who wants to stay in the band and who don?t. I hope everybody in the band understood that too.

J: Are you referring to someone special?
T: Yes?

J: Not to Marco?
T: No?

J: Not to Emppu?
T: No?

J: Then, to Anette?
T: I don?t want to continue the discussion on that matter.

J: Ok, last question. I guess your last show in Athens is among the worst moments of the tour, right?
T: About that, I wanted to say that there?s nothing to do with the fans who have been waiting to see us and welcomed us with warmth, which I won?t forget. But the promoter fuck it up! I?ve never met anywhere anybody worse. He put in danger our gig. There have been some statements (he means Anette?s statements) that we won?t return to Greece and I want to say that it?s not true at all, in no way! We love Greece and we know how warmly the people there support us. Of course, we will come back to Greece as soon as possible, when we have the chance. But we will be careful with some matters which have nothing to do with the people. And we will have a show that the Greek audience deserves.

J: You don?t want to tell me about the promoter?
T: No, it would be non-professional and at the end, it?s nothing to do with the fans?

J: Ok, thanks for this discussion! Do you want to add something?
T: I want to thank you too for giving me the chance to explain to the Greek audience my feelings and Nightwish feelings for them. I hope to come there as soon as possible!

The conclusions are all yours darlings!!
xxx

Marja wrote on 01.07.2009 at 22:45
Also... well personally I don't find it lame at all for a grown up person to be in Disneyland... I am not trying to support Tuomas since I consider him guilty of meny things as much as the other side but still I am in my early 20s and I'd love to be there just for the fun of it... if you don't live with craziness and humour how can u survive life?

Marja wrote on 01.07.2009 at 22:51
Poor Anette ¬¬
Most of time she was like a 'diva' giving a shit to fans... buuut
when she liked, she was soooo cute...
and tuomas... the best uahhh!!

Letícia wrote on 01.07.2009 at 22:51
Ok, when NW move on? REALLY move on already! They seem to mention their ex-singer now in every interview they make, trying to rise pity towards them by doing so or something or just create another scandal. And about "life-couch' well, that's just sweeeet. How many people she needs to "serve" her around? She says she doesn't intend to become a diva?! But she already becomes one.
The band obviously has HUGE problems in it.
NW has turned into some drama-queen gang with too many problems, but lots of bad attitude and etc. It is awful.

Tony wrote on 02.07.2009 at 01:13
After reading this interview it seems that NW is going to committ an artistic suicide! Really they are doing everything for it now. Somebody said that here? Thunder, my respects.

Mal wrote on 02.07.2009 at 01:38
The Seer's jokes about Tuomas were funny at first but it soon felt annoying around the fifth, and wanking off around the tenth. If you don't want to see any more NW drama on this site, stop commenting on it!

Oh, and I am American, so to me I associate fan-girls with Jonas Bros. and "Twilight". That said, let me ask this to those of you in Europe:

Nightwish has fan-girls?

Jeremy wrote on 02.07.2009 at 03:50
HOLY SHIT !!! I've just read the whole blog of Olzon in one night !!! I deserve a gold medal dudes !! I almost died of boredom ! my brain is definitely damaged, some grey gelatine now...

it 's really worse than I was thinking, I can't believe this girl sings in NW, such a nightmare ! If Tarja was the Terminator, Anette is the T-1000 !!! ahaha, poor Tuomas !!!

Oh man! what superficiality and marshmallow thoughts !!! what a freaking ego she got, what pathetic figure !! That girl spends her time gibbering about her cosy little life of new rich made of branded luxurious clothes, vege food, 'love and peace' craps, the whole spiced with some NW' adventures... Who cares to know she wants to buy a color fridge called SMEG, that she suddenly needs to put new wallpapers, or what kind of sandwichs she uses to eat ?!?!? I can't believe it !

That girl has only craps in her head dealing with miscellaneous branded expensive stuff, and she wonders why the world is so unfair, people so cruel, poor children starving.........

what obscenity !

TT wrote on 02.07.2009 at 08:00
That's ENOUGH! I've had it! Not only this woman and this band embarrassed themselves in front of Brazilian fans, they also made three different stories to whitewash themselves, ending with story by Holopainen about screming names of ex singer during concert. NW thinks that Brazilian idiots?! And now after 6 months this Olzon joins this stupid version and adds more details with now pictures of Tarja were thrown at her! Really madam? And one more year after now she will tell, that there were armed man with guns trying to shoot her in the name of ex singer at that concert or even ex singer herself who was showing middle fingers to her.

Nobody was shouting ex singer name at that gig, nobody was throwing stuff at her unless it was Invisible man with invisible stuff or couple of persons who did so totally unnoticed by everybody in the audience,except only for the madam Olzon! Everybody was supportive towards them and than she burst into hysteria and now all this!!

How DARE they make such dirty lies! How dare they insult people from other countries and make up crap stories about them! They can't take responsability for their own failures and mistakes and blame others. They must be sued for that.

BF wrote on 02.07.2009 at 11:28
@BF...calm down..who said she didn't indeed received these kind of comments. Idiots are everywhere, even in Brazil.
That said..she had to expect this.

Phantom wrote on 02.07.2009 at 13:24
@Phantom, it is easy to say for you to calm down cause they didn't insult your country or your natives. They make up stories, exaggerate like hell, lie, everything just to show them perfect. How honest is that?
I was there, I talked also with other people who were there, no one heard any screams of ex singer's name nobody saw anyone throwing anthing.
Sure, in any country there idiots, but NW tried to do all to portray Brazilian like moron nazies on false grounds and now milking it every possible way.

BF wrote on 02.07.2009 at 14:32
I'm missing comments of die-hards in this discussion. One might say that a band is dead when even die-hards stop defending it. In that case, Nightwish is already dead.

Phantom said: "@TT , Anette has not being chosen by Tuomas himself."

???

@TT: "HOLY SHIT !!! I've just read the whole blog of Olzon in one night !!! I deserve a gold medal dudes !!"

She advertizes every single thing she uses. From shoes, hats to cosmetic products. That's not normal.

TheSeer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 14:38
"She advertizes every single thing she uses. From shoes, hats to cosmetic products. That's not normal."

That's so cheap. Annette's blog reminds me of Paris Hilton, she is just like her, obsessed with talking and talking about clothes and cosmetics, about being "glamour girl", also so full of herself, thinking her every single comment about her eating habbits and fashion chocies (which are mostly horrible) matter BIG time to everyone.

Anna wrote on 02.07.2009 at 14:51
Good lord you lot are absurd, why are you wasting your time sitting around moaning and crying like babies over a band which you clearly despise? It is frankly sad.

If Tuomas + Anette piss you off so much why don't you find a band that you don't find so repulsive. I get the impression that you are enjoying complaining and are just looking for more things to whine about.

Marie wrote on 02.07.2009 at 15:10
OMG, what is this? Tarja widows gathered to talk about Anette here? If she's so not-worthy of your concern, why do you BOTHER coming here, reading this and then posting this whole lot of crap saying how much more wonderful is Tarja? Just a tip: get her album and stay home listening! You don't have to read news about Nightwish or Anette if that disgusts you people so much. GO GET A LIFE.
It IS crap to PAY for a concert just to go there and insult the vocalist, and I think we all should disaprove that kind of atitude, or would any of you, so quick to point your fingers, like to be in her shoes?
Come on, grow up you all...

Sunset wrote on 02.07.2009 at 16:15
So after all these comments where Maestro has been accused for only God knows what, so that the term "Freak Holopainen" seems too mild, some people come out with this:

"OMG, what is this? Tarja widows gathered to talk about Anette here? "

Seems like Sunset has already chosen side (s)he will take after Hartwall Arena Gig. Not the same as Phantom definitely. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 16:27
Yeash, inonic thing is just in my vains.

No, I've never taken sides. I like both Nightwish and Tarja careers apart, I think they're doing far better in separate ways. They're doing things in such a diferent way I see no point in all these comparision. And, specially, criticizing something you all say you don't care about. I mean, honestly, I'm no masochist. So when it happens that I don't like something, I don't go there and keep listening, so I'll have something to complain about. That's what I mean by "widow". Irony aside, I think that was pretty much easy to understand =)

Sunset wrote on 02.07.2009 at 16:51
"Not the same as Phantom definitely. ;-)"

@TheSeer .. I don't have a side, you have it (Tarja's crusader, I'm sure she will give you a medal lol ) . I just can't stand stupid comments .

I meant "Anette has not be chosen only by Tuomas , but by the whole band"

Phantom wrote on 02.07.2009 at 17:22
BF said: "That's ENOUGH! I've had it! Not only this woman and this band embarrassed themselves in front of Brazilian fans, they also made three different stories to whitewash themselves, ending with story by Holopainen about screming names of ex singer during concert. NW thinks that Brazilian idiots?! And now after 6 months this Olzon joins this stupid version and adds more details with now pictures of Tarja were thrown at her! Really madam? And one more year after now she will tell, that there were armed man with guns trying to shoot her in the name of ex singer at that concert or even ex singer herself who was showing middle fingers to her."

@mermaid: After reading first 2 BF's sentences I thought "FINALLY!!! A die-hard! And it's a long post too!". Needless to speak about the disappointment after I read the rest and realized that BF is actually on our side. So you see how much I miss them. And it's not a pose. :-)

Not so long ago, Internet was full of Maestro's talibans who were ready to die for him. Sometime it was only me against dozens. And now, you can hardly find any? And even then mostly people who have been in hibernation lately or were having problems with their Internet connection. Or just Anette fangirls (like here). You really need to be "Maestro" to accomplish something like that, don't you think?

Sunset said: "No, I've never taken sides. I like both Nightwish and Tarja careers apart, I think they're doing far better in separate ways ... Irony aside, I think that was pretty much easy to understand =)"

You didn't understand me. I wasn't talking about the first Hartwall Arena Gig but about the second one. The one that has NOT happened yet. And the one that wasn't sold out in just 2 hours. ;-)

Jeremy said: "The Seer's jokes about Tuomas were funny at first but it soon felt annoying around the fifth, and wanking off around the tenth."

No matter how many jokes about Tuomas I made some people keep proving it wasn't enough. Because the only thing that upsets them in this discussion is that "the same names constantly criticise Anette".

TheSeer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 17:26
I was talking to a friend of mine who is a fan of their new era and she said she never heard anything about NW in the newspapers. Not even for advertising their tour over here.
So that might be another "made up" thing by someone we don't know who might have told Anette it for making her feel bad.
Anette should take better care of herself.

Mwaha wrote on 02.07.2009 at 18:14
Thank you very much for your support and understanding, guys. My days are also much more sunny with Seer and Legeon, James and many others from here.

I had to leave yesterday and came back just few minutes ago, because Seer asked me to :-) - we in-between met commenting new article already.

I swear I will NOT FAIL YOU and I will NEVER GET a LIFE!

I will maybe come back tomorrow, but just short feedback now:

SEZ: Well, I do not like music Tarja is doing now at all (2 songs are acceptable for me, though) But I do not see how this is related to my comments - I do not comment person as such. That is why I do not care too much what kind of music Tarja, Legeon or James like/do not like or whether they do/do not like Disney.

I comment on actions taken only - what they do, what they say. PUBLICLY.
Supposing they are adults, they are supposed to take responsibility for their actions - at least in this country it is SO.

Marja and others: I did post here in MFF exactly that apology from Maestro in April, or so, when it was fresh, so many guys read it already that time.
It was me raising that issue here and one greek girl, but i forgot her name already.

TT: I really admire you for your effort with that blog. Did you watch Main Mainion, on youtube too?
I can not persuade anybody to watch it all (40 minutes) and I would REALLY like to get feedback on that.

Anna: well, she does not do that advertisement for free, is she? As was mentioned here already, she even adviced to chcek you are properly paid... :-)

mermaid wrote on 02.07.2009 at 18:52
"So when it happens that I don't like something, I don't go there and keep listening, so I'll have something to complain about."

So true. Why are you complaining so much about Nightwish if you guys don't like the band anymore? You guys are all being silly! There are plenty of other bands out there for you to listen to. Who cares if they make mistakes. That is their problem. Plus, they are not going to change for you or for anyone else. Get a life!

btw, I don't want a reply like "Tuomas did this" or "Anette did that". I don't care! You folks need to go find something better to do with your time!

Turk wrote on 02.07.2009 at 18:58
Seer and Legeon: So, guys, let us go and destroy NW! (we do not want to fail NW die-hards,do we? remember that they are only few of them standing, by the look of it!)

One serbian boy, and two girls, none of us from Finnland or even close to it - it is time to call our assistants, life couches and personal managers (if you have band managers, call them,too) and go and destroy them!

(Though we would better discuss who is going to take a proviant and who will be running blog for us - otganization could be crutial)

On the other hand - maybe we can just wait for it to happen anyway and then take credit for it.

As was written here and as I put in comment to today´s Tarja article - Nightwish is going to do accoustic music, maybe. THEN we will help so much help, we could NOT NOT to succeed!

mermaid wrote on 02.07.2009 at 19:00
@mermaid,

"TT: I really admire you for your effort with that blog. Did you watch Main Mainion, on youtube too? "

thanks, someone had to be sacrified, I've touched the bottom with Anette and now I need one week to recover and get out of this nightmare, but what's "Main Mainion" on YT, I can't find it ????

TheTongue wrote on 02.07.2009 at 20:33
This Kerrang interview was released in MARCH before their current tour had even started. Why has this issue been brought up again, 4 months after it was put to rest? Mind you, the Nightwish fire hasn't been stoked in some time.. we can't let that band stay quiet, oh no, let's stir up old shit and get the fans worked up and bring up the Tarja-Anette argument AGAIN. Great stuff..

Yer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 20:54
This whole thing is quite hilariously pathetic. Much lulz

Yer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 20:59
mermaid said: "I had to leave yesterday and came back just few minutes ago, because Seer asked me to :-) "

That's because die-hards were attacking me so harshly that I desperately needed some help. As long as Nightwish has so devoted fans NOTHING can go wrong with them. :-)

Mwaha said: "Anette should take better care of herself."

Indeed. She should consider hiring an aide also. A manager, a life coach, an assistant and an aide. Now that is what I call a winning combination.

Phantom said: "@TheSeer .. I don't have a side"

I hope this is not your general attitude. Imagine yourself back in the 40ies, with Allies fighting Hitler, and you don't have a side.

"I meant "Anette has not be chosen only by Tuomas , but by the whole band" "

I thought you were aiming on those rumours that the label forced Tuomas to choose Anette else Nightwish would lose their contract.

mermaid said: "Seer and Legeon: So, guys, let us go and destroy NW! (we do not want to fail NW die-hards,do we? remember that they are only few of them standing, by the look of it!) "

OK, I'll go and throw Maestro's TV into the sea. So that it can be "one with the waves". Maestro would find himself devastated since he said that after the open letter, he only had will to write new masterpieces and to watch TV for months. And let us not forget that the second Hartwall Arena Gig is getting closer. When it comes to Anette, the best way to devastate her is to hack her blog! Imagine how much USEFUL information would be lost FOREVER! If you cannot do that, find assistants who are good hackers. So let us go angels. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 21:05
that tuomas is such a diva ........

Matt wrote on 02.07.2009 at 21:30
Everybody is complaining about how huge a "drama" there is in Nightwish nowadays. I kind of agree; they probably got used to being constantly suffocated by press and mass-media and can't live without it anymore. On the other hand, there is also the audience's fault. We give them too much attention. I mean, look at this, this piece of news was added a couple of days ago and it gathered about 130 comments already. Not only they are taking a wrong path with paying too much attention to self-promotion, but also we are encouraging this behavior through our constant complaints/criticism/praising/fights. I for one, started believing we should just stick to the music and stop making such a huge fuss every time some crappy piece of info comes up on the internet about them. This way, I'm not sure they'd stop this love-the-press attitude, but at least we wouldn't be "feeding" it anymore.
On the other hand, I've read somewhere that what's written in here wasn't exactly published in the latest Kerrang! issue, but it's from an older one that has only been updated with a couple of statements taken from Anette's blog. I have no proof though; but if it is true, maybe it's also the press's fault, trying to "revive" these things over and over again so the fuss never dies.

Seducianne wrote on 02.07.2009 at 21:42
Seducianne said: "maybe it's also the press's fault, trying to "revive" these things over and over again so the fuss never dies."

You have a small typo there. It's FUN and not FUSS. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 02.07.2009 at 21:58
"This Kerrang interview was released in MARCH before their current tour had even started. Why has this issue been brought up again, 4 months after it was put to rest? "

Or so now you blame MFF staff for posting it? Sure, blame it on anyone else bar NW. NW is always innocent as new born baby, lol. Didn't you think that the updated version could appear cause NW pretty much wanted it? They are so keen on cheap PR and scandals around them now, I wound't be surprised.

TT, you've manage to read her whole blog? My God! You are a brave one! I've read only a little. I hoped really to find there something to justify existance of that blog or her personal site, something that could show me her good sides, something smart and useful. But unfortanetly I found none. She writes a blog like some teenaged pop-uped wannabe. It is just so very sad, cause it so very immature of her, she turned into a diva so quickly.

Olivia wrote on 03.07.2009 at 00:06
@olivia

Yep, 140 posts wasting some nocturnal hours !! I've skipped the fan comments to avoid a cancer :/
I wanted to have a definitive opinion about her, that one has confirmed my first impression in a worse way. The feedback amount amazed me a lot because, like you said, she says only childish stupid things that show truly a mediocre pound-foolish mind, wannabe stuff and behaviours you find by millions in the abysses of the Net.

I'm almost certain the guys miss Tarja now, or at least, regard her with more esteem since they 've realized that Anette has absolutely nothing to do with their values and music world.
I'm afraid NW is truly a cursed band now, surely they've created with their foolish fans a bad egregor while Tarja's got a good one, who knows...

Also, it's like Anette wants from now on to write songs, thinking maybe of a future collaboration/side project, or why not, of her future solo career...

"I am picking up the studio things!! Sooo fun! I have so many songs in my head that really needs to come out;=)"

???

TT wrote on 03.07.2009 at 01:42
ok, gusy, I am back and I have few more adds:

Maria: the greek girl´s name was Marissa. It was not Legeon who started to explain die-hards that Greeks might have their feelings, too (she looks to me as greek girl, though).

TT: you ARE SO BRAVE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUepJI1xDvY (and sorry, it is Maan Mainiot - a document celebrating Maestro´s life and creation)

Anna: you actually made a valid point - what you typed increased my respect to Anette (it was not SO difficult, because I had none)

if this is the case, she is not so crazy at all - she runs her webpage to do the business. Seriously, if she runs webpage to do the advertisement she is paid for, then it is quite clever.

But let us have a look - is she advertising some big, international brands, or small ones? Anna, let us know, please.

Thanks in advance.

Daniela: Theatro of tragedy is quite normal band. :-)

Seer: To say that NW die-hards are talibans is very witty, though not very fair to both sides. Even Talibans might feel offended, you know?

Akon: I really would like to make you happy and do some stalking on NW - but honestly, the more I am thinking about how to do it, the less I see value added. I mean - what would I find by stalking what was not REVEALED by them already?

To do stalking is to find out MORE about the band. I would prefer to know LESS about them. But with all these reveals I have no chance, actually.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 10:31
Legeon,

I am really looking for Anette´s merchandise! Hope we will get some chance to buy crystals with her face - taht is an item I am really missing a lot.

What would you buy, guys, giving a chance?

Tshirt saying "I am an Oceansoul so f**k off!" would be quite inspiring, too.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 10:34
TT and James made an interesting point about MJ and Maestro:

There are many things these two guys have in common - both were very proud of the fact that they never grew up. Both see it as a proof they were innocent and naive and honest and pure, etc.

Maan Mainiot is (as I am getting it, not being finnish) that boy who fought Capitan Cook and never grew up - you know which story I mean, I hope. :-)

They were both running on Disney. They were both claiming that they are obssesed by their art ONLY. Their attitude to women was the same, to some extend. MJ married Lisa Presley, we should wait and see who will be Maestro´s chosen one.

The more I am thinking about the more valid this comparison is to me. As for operation - Maestro is still good looking in his 32 years - so give him a time.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 10:41
Guys, for those of you who complain that this article is OLD - go and see MFF staff answer to such complaints on yesterday Tarja´s article.

Tero clearly stated that nobody would ask them questions about emotional break-down or Tarja BECAUSE that would be OLD NEWS.

There is no way how to put it more clear, even for die-hards.

And those of you who are coming here to tell us not to listen to bands we do not like and not to read their interviews if we find them boring - well, why YOU are coming here and read what we typed if you do not like it, too?

Even you do not follow your own advice, why should we?

Sombody mentioned that Seer is Tarjaholic. If you would see his comments on Tarja´s article, you would doubt that. :-)

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 10:46
mermaid said: "I would prefer to know LESS about them. But with all these reveals I have no chance, actually."

Have you seen the latest Anette's reveal:

"I am picking up the studio things!! Sooo fun! I have so many songs in my head that really need to come out ;=)"

God in His Mercy! :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

"Seriously, if she runs webpage to do the advertisement she is paid for, then it is quite clever. "

Clever from Anette. Not sure about those companies though. Let us not forget that she is NOT Paris Hilton. Only a wanabee. That has been "chosen by the boys". This reminds me very much on that South Park episode "Stupid Spoiled Whore". :-)

"What would you buy, guys, giving a chance? "

Singing lessons for dummies, written by Madam Olzon would be a total hit!

Btw, if she wants to be like other megastars she should also engage in some charity work. Like starting her own foundation. "Assistants for everyone!" sounds like a great one don't you think so? Connecting unemployed people with divas all around the globe. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 12:43
@mermaid

ppfft "Sombody mentioned that Seer is Tarjaholic. If you would see his comments on Tarja´s article, you would doubt that."

The Seer IS a Tarjaholic lol. Just like you all are here, Tarja's crusaders..pity that she won't give you a medal after your campaign of mocking Tuomas Holopainen. XD ;)
It's funny because your goddess has always praised his artistic talent (for writing music and lyrics) , maybe she was a Tuomasholic too? XD ahah

Lol Tuomas compared to MJ , seriously..lol. You asked me how old I am, I'd like to ask you the same because I think it's not hard for a grown up woman to notice that Michael Jackson had serious psychological problems while Tuomas is not at the same level luckyly .
It's funny that you talk about his attitude towards women as you might know what attitude he actually has , on which bases you judge him? It doesn't count the interview where he talks about his ideal woman and the fact he never talked about gf in public (since it's none of our business by the way and it doesn't concern Nightwish) , you keep ignoring the fact he actually mentioned some of them (clearly faking for you lol ) , for example in a couple of interview he said he broke up with his girlfriend in 2004.
Are you surprised to find that there are actually men who are not exactly grown up at 30 and are not so good with keeping stable relationships? I thought it was pretty common among human kind and doesn't prove the fact they are egoistical freaks who will never love (rofl, it sounds like the Beauty and the Beast..maybe he needs a rose and Belle, and one might even wonder who, to break the spell...lol c'mon)
Oh, Tuomas never claimed to be innocent nowadays lol. You select only the info which are convenient for your thesis, mermaid? ;)

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 12:53
So, I read this all through and I should say that Seer was having a really good day on this one.

He was witty and smart - I laughed on his comments again and again - it really was worth reading second time.

Actually - before he, Legeon and me will go to distry Nightwish, I have someconceptual problems: How would we know that NW is destroyed already? We would look like idiots when we will be fighting the war what we won already.. :-)

Then, again - we can not be drama Queens, Legeon, because Seer is a boy and he seems to be sure about it.
Two Drama Queens and one drana King sounds like a new NW cd title.

Though, 3 is a good number, Cinderella has 3 peanuits, dragoon use to have 3 heads and kings use to have 3 sons, in worst case daughters.

So, what about knights? Well, maybe too posh... Mainly if we consider the Phantom´s strong belief we have sick minds...

So what about witches? Based on Terry Pratchet´s reasoning man could be a with and girl could be a wizard. :-)
So, it will work even for Seer.

And to make your weekedn I am putting here how 2 different finnish bands respond to fans. One is from France, one from mexico. Enjoy comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZd7shwWJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6UdUNev9Tg

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 12:54
@The Seer
"I am picking up the studio things!! Sooo fun! I have so many songs in my head that really need to come out ;=)"

which studio things? NW have not booked the studio yet lol so I have no idea what you are implying .

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 12:55
Seer,
she clearly graduated in "How to become Tarja Turunen easy and fast" course.

Actually, she somewhere stated about the future she thinks it is suitable for her. It was either interview or some article on her blog (TT would not for sure) where she said how she is learning from the turmoil caused by press and how she thinks she can offer a lot and help some other people in that respect.

Looked to me, as if she wants to be a couch or representative for some megastar (Jackson passed, so madonna remains only available) and she said something about psychology, too.

Looked to me as if she considered herself an expert in this field.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 13:08
a cook-book with recipies "Cooking with Anette Olzon"
Or "Cooking with Nightwish"
"Night cooking with Anette."

Well and then - Mrs. Spears wrote a book about how to raise stars of children.
As far as it was in time when her older daughter was divorced and lost custody of her children and the younger was pregnant, is was very usufull for those who wanted to konw HOW NOT TO RAISE your children.

Following that example Mrs. Olzon could write a book on How to become a Nightwish star, so some sensible vocalist could read what not to do, either.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 13:16
to Seer:

... hear our prayer, indeed!

Now, that will be THE FUN to see - Anette Olzon on her own. But by the looks of it, I would say that she is clearly getting ready for solo carrier - is she talking about some future album already?

Well, if she is going to compose, I seriously doubt it is going to be in NW and as far as she is not able to cope with workload in NW I do not believe in here ability to have a side projects.

So, the big surprise NW announced would be a split - Anette on her own and NW doing accoustic with Marco as vocalist I would say.
Worse things happen at see.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 13:28
And Seer, I have shi-tzu, so it is almost a cat.
Still, out of curiosity, (it always good to pay attention to what expert says)

Which brand of cats Mrs. Olzon sugests?

Whiskas?

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 13:33
Phantom, you are clearly not up to date, if you mentioned Maestro´s girlfriend from 2004!

As I already mentioned it is worth to read Maestro´s blog. Have you been on Facebook? He actually found him the last one (well, I was not there fro a week, or so, so maybe she was not the last one) like a month ago (maybe in May) and everybody did congratulate him for that - even Mrs. Olzon.

But it did not last so long... :-(

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:11
Phantom,

as for your strong impression Seer and me are Tarjaholics:

she would give me a medal (a golden one) when I will admit that I like her music. We have an agreement about that done already.
But if you would read comments here, I do not like her music (2 songs are acceptable for me, though).

I will try to type more slowly in future so will have more time to read and you will not be in such a stress. That should help.

You are still doing very well, considering that I do not speak english at all, as you kindly reminded me the other day.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:16
"Phantom, you are clearly not up to date, if you mentioned Maestro´s girlfriend from 2004!

As I already mentioned it is worth to read Maestro´s blog. Have you been on Facebook? He actually found him the last one (well, I was not there fro a week, or so, so maybe she was not the last one) like a month ago (maybe in May) and everybody did congratulate him for that - even Mrs. Olzon.

But it did not last so long... :-("

uahahahah I can't believe you are soo stupid. Tuomas DOESN'T have facebook or a blog (mind you giving me the link of "maestro's blog" so I can laugh lol ) . Either you are naive , either you like to mock people with ridiculous bullshits you invent . Neither Anette has facebook, and EVERYBODY knows those persons on facebook or myspace just fakes.

You know, somebody should also write you a manual "how to get mermaid a life and make her stop writing incoherent posts" LOL

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:33
Seer wrote: "If there is to be new Nightwish album, the thing I'm most curious about are THE LYRICS. After 10 years of lovelorn poses and metaphorical suicides, I'm really curious what next is to come."

Seer, I am telling you all the time, that you put too much trust into lyrics.
What would be the main theme of his next songs?
Ressurection, loneliness, love, death... etc. the usual staff.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:40
Phantom said: "It's funny because your goddess has always praised his artistic talent (for writing music and lyrics) , maybe she was a Tuomasholic too? XD ahah"

Maybe we ALL were Tuomasholics? Once...

"Lol Tuomas compared to MJ , seriously..lol. You asked me how old I am, I'd like to ask you the same because I think it's not hard for a grown up woman to notice that Michael Jackson had serious psychological problems while Tuomas is not at the same level luckyly ."

Give him some time. I think MJ was behaving much better when he was 30.

"for example in a couple of interview he said he broke up with his girlfriend in 2004. "

Lack of sex in the relationship? Romantic "only on the paper"?

mermaid said: "Actually - before he, Legeon and me will go to destroy Nightwish"

Armed with NOTHING but a handful of Tarja's pictures. :-)

Phantom said: "which studio things? NW have not booked the studio yet lol so I have no idea what you are implying ."

C'mon Phantom it's obvious! Anette is planing to start a solo career with her writing the songs. Her head is full of new songs! It will explode unless she starts writing them down ASAP. I hope she is not musically dyslexic. Even then, she will only sing them while her assistants will write them down. XD

"a cook-book with recipies "Cooking with Anette Olzon" "

And I want small copies of her Conservatory Certificate as key pendants. That would be a hit too! With small etchings "Graduated singing in the class of Prof. Madam Edith". That's the wife of Rene Artois from that British sitcom 'Allo, 'allo! XD

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:42
Phantom, thanks but I swore NOT to get a life.
That is the problem with your reading I mentioned already.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:44
Phantom said: "You know, somebody should also write you a manual "how to get mermaid a life and make her stop writing incoherent posts" LOL "

@Phantom: I have some doubts about your life too. Replying to literally every post of mermaid and me with ones that are even longer didn't manage to dispell those doubts. :-p

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:48
You know, guys, if Maestro said (in an interview) that he was in Frankfurt with his girlfriend and Phantom KNOWS FOR SURE (and I am the last one here to doubt it)

that they BROKE in 2004 -

new questions are rising - what if what Maestro claimed to be a girlfriend was in fact a boyfriend?

You night have some point, after all, Seer...

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:49
to Seer: he clearly is attracted to us. :-)

And I would like to stress your attention to the fact, that comparison to MJ was not done by me, originally. I responded to James and TT (I think) and I just agreed with them.

But James and TT have not deserved Phantom´s attention, yet. Or - again, it might be a problem with his reading, as I mentioned twice already.

BTW: what happened to Legion? She is not even on Tarja´s article today.

And as for a battle - wait for the Anette merchandise, we might get better things to throw.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 14:58
"You know, guys, if Maestro said (in an interview) that he was in Frankfurt with his girlfriend and Phantom KNOWS FOR SURE (and I am the last one here to doubt it)

that they BROKE in 2004 "

Well, you complain he never talks about girlfriends..I told you he talked about girlfriend. What part of my sentence it's not clear to you? XD
Btw, it is true that your english is terrible. Mine is no perfect either, but your posts don't make sense.

If you don't want to get a life at least make coherent posts.

@TheSeer , I didn't say I have a life XD . Don't worrie..I'll get tired too and spoil your fun, usually I hate pointless discussions like this one. So sorry to be your party pooper. LOL

"Lack of sex in the relationship? Romantic "only on the paper"?" ahah so he goes with groupies just to experience different cultures? XD

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:01
mermaid said: "new questions are rising - what if what Maestro claimed to be a girlfriend was in fact a boyfriend?

You night have some point, after all, Seer..."

That's a good idea for the lyrics to the new Maestro's masterpiece. After 10 years of lovelorn poses and metaphorical suicides... a coming out story! :-) But I doubt it, he is too much of a coward for that... Unlike Rammstein. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:09
"But James and TT have not deserved Phantom´s attention, yet. Or - again, it might be a problem with his reading, as I mentioned twice already.
"

Maybe because they don't talk so many bullshits as you, dear mermaid XD
Well YOUR problem with your understanding I'd say XD . Obviously my comment about MJ was not referred just to you , I only quoted you XD

Again, an other person so sure about my sex XD . What if I'm an ermaphrodite? XD
Wait, I could be the maestro himself since he has no life, no sex and he's only centered on himself lol .

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:09
Phantom said: "What if I'm an ermaphrodite? XD "

Speaking about Rammstein they have a song with that tittle - Zwitter! Rammstein rules! This is like that RockMan's "Nightwish rules!". I miss that die-hard particularly. :-(

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:15
Phantom, why do you bother yourself and read my pointless comments, clearly not written in english?
Do us both a favour and ignore me, ok?

just by the way, it took three times to explain you (and Seer had to help me on that) that Tarja is NOT my godess.

Well, it might be incoherent for you when I said that I found only 2 her songs acceptable. Strange, it was coherent enough for Seer.
He understood imediately. But, again, it could be due to some "Seer qualities" in him.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:36
@mermaid said: "But, again, it could be due to some "Seer qualities" in him."

LOL

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:41
"Do us both a favour and ignore me, ok? "

but then you should get yourself a life and break your promise XD

"Well, it might be incoherent for you when I said that I found only 2 her songs acceptable. Strange, it was coherent enough for Seer.
He understood imediately. But, again, it could be due to some "Seer qualities" in him."

you are both incoherent that's why XD . Or maybe you and Seer are the same person...uhm what an interesting theory XD .
LOL

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:41
@Phantom: "Or maybe you and Seer are the same person...uhm what an interesting theory XD . LOL"

OK Phantom, it's time for capitulation. Do not embarass yourself further DUDE. And get a life. You didn't promise anything as far as I can remember your posts. And since I remembered you called me "dude" several hundreds posts ago, it seems that I remember them pretty well. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 15:52
@Seer

:-) why would not we tell him that we are the same person? Legeon included? Now let us go back to Anette and do some serious rumouring.

Maybe you could use your "seer qualities" and give me your feedback on what i typed before Phantom came in?

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:01
@mermaid: "@Seer

:-) why would not we tell him that we are the same person? Legeon included? Now let us go back to Anette and do some serious rumouring. "

I ended up having tears in my eyes by just imagining that. XD

Btw I like making rumours about Anette. There is NOTHING more rewarding than when a target of rumours repeatedly "decides to reveal" that the rumours were actually true. It flatters to us who started them originally. :-)

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:11
@Seer:

As for MJ - when he was 30, he was admired, loved, respected. He was believed to be extremely nice guy, he did a lot of charity, there was NOTHING negative you could possibly find about him that time (1988).

First scandal happened in 1993.

In 1988 he was a hero not just of the country. In 1884 he visited White House, invited by president Ronald Reagan. The award was given for his support of charities that helped people overcome alcohol and drug abuse. He won eight awards during the 1984 Grammys. He composed the charity single We are the world together with lionel Ritchie.

In 1982 he put out cd Thriller, in 1987 cd Bad.
In 1886 he was diagnosed with vitiligo, so if I would put it blunt, he was still not "white" in 1988.

So, you made a VERY GOOD point.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:23
"Btw I like making rumours about Anette"

LOL about what? which kind of clothes she will wear in the future?
Sadly for you there is not so much to make rumours on XD

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:26
Seer,

you cried by shock, fun, or you have been touched?

Actually, rumouring about Anette is easy for you - with your "seer qualities". But on the other hand - and I mean no disrespect to you :-)
it is quite easy even to incoherent me to see where this is heading..

what kind of music is she going to do, do not you know? A folk, maybe?

Actually, did you read the famous definition of different metals genres? Well, it is famous here, but I do not know if it came here through translation, or we made it up ourselves...

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:30
Phantom said: "LOL about what? which kind of clothes she will wear in the future?
Sadly for you there is not so much to make rumours on XD"

2 years ago when literally EVERY music journalist was praising Anette to the skies, saying how she fits NW so much better, how her voice is warmer and "rockier", how her attitude is more down-to-earth, her stage presence more "entertaining" I was saying all over the Internet: "She does NOT fit in this band." and "DPP is to be her first and last NW album.". I was often completely alone in criticising her, surrounded by dozens of NW die-hard talibans. I was often wondering myself: "Is EVERYONE in this world so blind?". Needless to say that after reading dozens of reviews of exaltation and not a single at least a little bit critical, I completely lost my faith in musical journalism. Haven't read a single review of any band since then. :-) And it's also needless to say how happy I am that everything I said about Nightwish and Anette is coming true. Like I am really the seer. But it's actually only that I was NOT a mole. ;-)

mermaid said: "Seer, you cried by shock, fun, or you have been touched?"

When I imagined a single person writing all these comments sometimes under the name mermaid, sometimes Legeon and sometimes TheSeer I cracked up and almost ended rolling on the floor laughing my ass off. Now that would be someone without life! XD

"what kind of music is she going to do, do not you know? A folk, maybe? "

She may call it whatever she wants, but my "seer qualities" (or "not blind like a mole qualities" ;-)) say it will be POP.

I haven't read that definition of music genres?

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 16:53
Seer,

I was receiving some nasyt feedbacks from NW die-hards, too, remember?

Still, it amazes me how are many people ready to think that we are well, maybe not a one person, but at least a GANG of people, who somehow decided to destroy Tarja/NW/Anette, etc.. depending on which article we are (Tarja, Anette or NW related).
If somebody would be thinking a bit, he/she would find out that many times our opinions differ - in this discussionyou might find a difference, too. Not to mention that Legeon is Tarja´s fan. :-)

But we respect each other and have no problem if we do not have the same opinion. We are just having fun together and a piece of rumouring, too. :-) As a bonus.

OK, regarding definision of different sorts of metal, (or you might say it is a short manual how to ditinguish them),

it is SO funny. I laugh every time I read it. I found it on one Goth webpage together with a manual how to commit a suicide ot what jewels to wear to have the right Goth Look and I really LOVE that.

But it needs translation and it is quite long, and I do not want to spoil the fan by rough translation,
so I will do that on weekend and post somewhere for you to read next week, when we meet on some article.

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 17:11
@TheSeer , what exactly did you predict about NW XD

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 17:11
And not only that I've lost my faith into music journalism forever, but I've also learnt a life lection: "yes, people ARE blind".

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 17:13
Seer,

be carefull with talibans, they might come here and feel offended, you know?

What reminds me about my friend many years ago, when we travelled abroad and we met some people in our age and do some introducing.
She had this beautifull sense of absurd humor and some of the boys looked way too posh to her, so she introduced herself, shaking his hand (young lady in action, costume, high heels, make-up, imagine THAT)

and said: ... "I like to do knitting and I am in IRA." She started a tradition, so we for some time pretended to be in a bit controversial organizations just to see the look on the faces around... :-)

mermaid wrote on 03.07.2009 at 17:21
mermaid said: "Not to mention that Legeon is Tarja´s fan. :-)"

I think I'm a Tarja fan too. I've seen her 9 times live - 4 times with NW, 1 times with Doro and 4 times solo. :-p

About the definitions of music genres, you do not need to bother translating everything. The most important part would be fine. ;-)

And btw, I think I got the tip about talibans. So from now on, it's only "NW die-hards". ;-)

Phantom said: "@TheSeer , what exactly did you predict about NW XD"

XD I have already told you Phantom. XD I "predicted" that Anette does not fit into Nightwish. XD And that DPP is going to be her last NW album. XD

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 18:10
169 comments !!! oh that's very nasty !!! :)
thanks Mermaid, I will check it out (Maan Mainiot), in these days I'm reading also the official biography so I'm afraid to get a big nausea again...

About Anette, according to her blog, she seems an expert and got lots of interest in the past in coaching stuff; that's a reason why she got recently so many assistants around her, I guess this interest is linked also to her deep egocentric/narcissistic side.

I don't think she actually earn money for advertising all these brands on her blog (some famous like Dolce & Gabbana, Gucci) other of different kinds like OLW for cereal stuff (!?) ... but who knows.... there are no limits in mediocrity and greediness, in one post she has even listed the brands her son was wearing on a photo :/

About music, I assume she got some music studio stuff to work by herself, nothing to so with NW I guess, anyway Tuomas couldn't accept she put her nose in his stuff. It's like she wants to have everything, both Tarja's part in Nw and to be Tarja as a solo artist... I guess she will take also a bunch of music assistants to help her in the writing/composing process, like Tarja did in the beginning.....

Psychologically, I think Anette is just a ' vampire ', those kind of persons that lust after everything, she wants it all right now.... a very common profile you find everywhere.

TT wrote on 03.07.2009 at 18:38
TT said: "I will check it out (Maan Mainiot), in these days I'm reading also the official biography so I'm afraid to get a big nausea again... "

There will be a whole chapter dedicated to Tarja's complaining on Lappi mosquitos. :-)

"there are no limits in mediocrity and greediness, in one post she has even listed the brands her son was wearing on a photo :/"

Poor kid... :-/

"I think Anette is just a ' vampire ', those kind of persons that lust after everything, she wants it all right now...."

Well it's either right now or never. She is not in the best years to be a stupid spoiled whore like Paris Hilton, Christina Aguilera or Britney Spears. Her clock is ticking.

TheSeer wrote on 03.07.2009 at 18:57
You guys are crazy :P My apologies, I was out having a life (or at least a faint resemblance thereof ...) for a few days, and I was going to tell the NW diehards who tell the NW critics to shut up to shut up themselves, but it seems you just pretty much flooded them away ...

Legeon: Not only NW fans believed the letter. Pretty much everyone who knows Nightwish does, especially those who were never huge fans and never cared to dig deeper. Everyone believes the backstabbing liars.

And the sad thing is that Tarja will probably never get rid of that taint, even if Tuomas publicly renounced his accusations. Semper aliquid haeret ... (if you don't understand the Latin phrase, google it)

But that's why we are here. To educate the public.

And it (the new album) will have an even bigger choir!

James: In fact they mentioned somewhere (the book?) that it was their goal to conquer the US market, even before Anette came in I think. I had doubts about the direction NW was going already at that time, but I was still able to keep myself in the "fatuous fanboy" state. I should have woken up earlier.

I do agree that the only thing still dramatic and epic about Nightwish is their problems ...

Tuomas should go to Disneyland ... and stay there. As Captain Jack Sparrow. Now that he's stopped writing interesting music, that's the only job he's still good at - mimicking fictional characters.

Perhaps Tarja would not have become as famous if she had composed her own songs, or had another person compose for her (never mind that she was planning a classical career originally, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway). But just because Tuomas writes more accessible music doesn't mean it's "better".

In fact, I think one of the reasons (apart from being "easier" and more "profitable", although I doubt she is making that much profit at the time, and she is still working hard ... starting a new career is always a challenge, even without her baggage! BTW, I also think the fact that she still kept receiving support and encouragement from her fans kept her from turning her back to the metal world) for not pursuing a classical career is exactly the artistic control and the opportunity to write her own music and in particular, lyrics!

As an aside, I do wonder what would have happened if she had offered compositions of her own to Tuomas ...

I want "Time" too! See: Wintersun even stopped touring to ensure the album will be ready sooner.

TT: I do wonder if Anette gets money for all this product placement.

Marie: We were once fans of this band, too. Or at least ... a band of the same name.

But it would be fun to think that we NW critics managed to "destroy" the band just by bursting their colourful bubbles and offering some good old logical thinking - coupled with a few underappreciated facts - in return ... :P

Almagest wrote on 03.07.2009 at 22:25
to Almagest :
"But just because Tuomas writes more accessible music doesn't mean it's "better". "

Maybe he stopped writing interesting music, and I agree partially, but guys be honest to admit that he has written some interesting things in the past . According to Tarja as well, as we all know she still likes singing NW music.
And, as much as I love Tarja, so far Tuomas has written far better stuff than what her composers did for MWS. I'm positive about her next album.

"In fact, I think one of the reasons (apart from being "easier" and more "profitable", although I doubt she is making that much profit at the time, and she is still working hard ... starting a new career is always a challenge, even without her baggage! BTW, I also think the fact that she still kept receiving support and encouragement from her fans kept her from turning her back to the metal world) for not pursuing a classical career is exactly the artistic control and the opportunity to write her own music and in particular, lyrics! "

In a classical field (especially if you start doing things seriously at a certain age) is much more difficult to become "someone" . That's what I meant.

"As an aside, I do wonder what would have happened if she had offered compositions of her own to Tuomas ... "
I don't think there would have been problems, as a matter of fact Emppu and Marco did and still does. Not for the lyrics, only the music. I don't think Tuomas would have refused her ideas (she had that great idea of those vocals on The Siren and Tuomas was immediately entusiasthic about that) , she was probably too shy as she said in some interviews, she even precised that nobody told her not to write music. It's a pity she didn't take part to the reharsals (only when they registered Once for a couple of songs) .

Phantom wrote on 03.07.2009 at 23:05
I notice how almost none of these comments are constructive criticism, or even related to the article: just mermaid and Legeon fighting with each other and trashing singers. -_- Please, grow up.

On topic: they're human. No one can do it all. Everyone spends so much time criticizing people for their imperfections, and then criticizes again when they try to fix said imperfections. Everyone only gets one go-around on this earth: we all do our best to learn from our failures and move on. And that's all anyone can ask of us.

TheVoiceInYourHead wrote on 03.07.2009 at 23:09
@ Almagest

"I want "Time" too! See: Wintersun even stopped touring to ensure the album will be ready sooner."

Me too! I wonder when it will be done. Jari, we are patiently awaiting!!! :O

James wrote on 03.07.2009 at 23:44
By the way, I have an interview with Tarja done by a German magazine and there was a remark that she reads through all of her interviews before allowing to release them, that she does not want to talk about why, and the magazine was not allowed to print her replies to questions regarding that subject.

As for Tuomas's compositions being "far better" than those on her first solo album, if you talk about recent NW, then flat-out no. But I am more interested in listening to her compositions than those of hired guns, so much is for sure.

I know that it is difficult to start a career in classical music at a certain age, but in your late twenties, you aren't really that old either. I don't think she would have been the first singer to start a classical career that late. There seem to be metal singers who haven't even been trained to begin with but eventually crossed over into classical, so apparently it can be done.

I never suggested that Tuomas would have refused Tarja's contributions. But it would have made the whole situation even more interesting, because nobody could have accused her of being "only" a vocalist and never having contributed anything musically to the band (except that she, of course, arranged her vocal lines and interpreted them, which tends to be conveniently forgotten).

Incidentally, I wonder if that is the reason why Tuomas has always downplayed the demos and AFF ... Tarja actually HAS contributed vocal melodies there.

TheVoiceInYourHead: Obviously you haven't really read through all those comments. No-one is fighting with each other, certainly not Legeon and mermaid, because they agree with each other for the most part, and nobody is trashing any singers. Constructive criticism does not mean that you cannot disapprove of people's words and actions.

But when you raise the bar as high as the Nightwish guys and their current frontwoman, you're bound to come under closer scrutiny. They don't live up to their own standards; they're not a pretentionless amateur band in some Karelian village anymore.

Almagest wrote on 04.07.2009 at 00:42
@Almagest , well not everything from DPP ..but I find some of DPP songs better than those on MWS . De gustibus non disputandum est :D
What saves MWS is Tarja's amazing interpretation of certain songs, her vocals not the music itself , except some songs.

Of course I don't think that she choosed this career just because she didn't want to risk with a classical career. I just think that I would have thought also about that aspect if I was in her shoes.

"Incidentally, I wonder if that is the reason why Tuomas has always downplayed the demos and AFF ... Tarja actually HAS contributed vocal melodies there. "

They were downplayed even when Tarja was in the band. I don't think it has something to do with it

Phantom wrote on 04.07.2009 at 01:38
WOOOOW! Couple of Tarja fanatics going mad :) Yes you really should get a life and over your bitterness. You guys are ridicilous :)

Amazed wrote on 04.07.2009 at 08:47
@Almagest
Tuomas composes the music behind the orchestrations, just listen at the demo to get what I mean. The arrangements for the orchestra are made by Pip Williams but the basic lines are made by Tuomas. It has been said millions times and the proof are the demo versions of some songs (including The Poet and The Pendulum) without orchestrations.

I disagree about Once. Well you praise Epica instead lol ..what can I say XD...

Angels Fall First was originally a demo, and when they got the record deal with Spinefarm they released more songs , so that's why he said that. Not because of your cospiracy theory :D . I'm not aware of this thing the 3 demos were not fully composed. I'd like to know where exactly you took this info . Anyway, it doesn't change the fact Tuomas called AFF a sort of demo for the reason I explained you above.
But you guys have to find every single detail to "prove" Holopainen is a controlling ego freak who doesn't give any credit and importance to his band members . They all stayed for so long though, including Tarja, they must be really masochist to cope with such a fucked up nazi boss.

Phantom wrote on 04.07.2009 at 11:03
to Almagest: also Tuomas never hide behind Pip Williams, he always recognized his work calling him the 6th member of NW. I think it's crystal clear to people who follows the band what Pip Williams does and what Tuomas does. Personally I don't find nothing wrong with it.

Phantom wrote on 04.07.2009 at 11:05
Well ... without the orchestral arrangements, neither CC, Once or DPP would sound nearly as impressive. Certainly not better than the old albums. I think it would reveal how lame they actually are (for the most part).

Yes, I praise Epica because they make more interesting, dark, aggressive, complex and serious music (as well as lyrics) than Nightwish, with less concessions to the mainstream taste. I know you as a Tuomas fangirl close your eyes and refuse to accept that there could be bands that do the same style (or a very similar style at least) as Nightwish but far better, but that doesn't change the facts, sorry to say.

If I recall correctly, the information about the vocal lines on the demos comes from the book (where else?).

Almagest wrote on 04.07.2009 at 18:07
By the way, I'm just using Tuomas's and fans' own standards for determining "better". Epica do what Nightwish claims to do.

Pip Williams' role isn't really promoted that much. How many people really know that all the "awesome" spectacular orchestral bombast is not really Tuomas's work alone? Those uninformed people who always thought that Tarja wrote the music before she was kicked certainly do not.

Almagest wrote on 04.07.2009 at 18:12
NW has turned to band obsessed with scandals, media attention and stuff. And their current singer is such a mess with all her ego attitude. She has been in band for so little and she behaves like she is the biggest thing in the band. Her blog proves it!

"I am picking up the studio things!! Sooo fun! I have so many songs in my head that really needs to come out;=)"

That poor girl already wants to start a solo side project or something? She is not coping with the job of frontwoman in big band already, and she wants to do something else? Gosh, does she has wits at all.

$am wrote on 04.07.2009 at 19:06
Almagest, you are funny . If you read my previous post you'll find out I'm not a "fangirl" . Do you usually label everyone who doesn't necessairly agree with you as "fangirls" ? :D (without even know if I'm a girl or a boy between)

I don't like Epica mainly because I don't find anything interesting and innovative in them (more growls, more guitars, operatic vocals, pseudo-religious/latin lyrics doesn't necessairly mean better for me. Paradise Lost did it already in 1991 and it certainly was a better result for me ) but I'm perfectly aware of the fact there are much better bands than Nightwish. In general I'm not too fond of the genre , but I save some names, After Forever , Tristania, The Gathering (old) and Theater of Tragedy . The rest is pretty much unrelevant for me :P . I do listen to a lot of other metal bands far more heavy and complex than Nightwish .Example: Dream Theater, Cynic, Opeth? Do they ring a bell or you think they are not as heavy and complex as Epica? You underestimate "fanboys/girls" maybe :P . Going back to the genre (female fronted metal) no other bands give me feelings and emotions as OLD Nightwish. So sorry to say, I don't give a shit that Epica are less mainstream XD.

Century Child has not much orchestra, and Once has orchestra but it's blended beautifully even on the most simple songs . EverDream is a simple but wonderful song. Music world is full of wonderful simple songs which are masterpieces. As for DPP , I agree with you.

Maybe Tuomas should have put a sticker on Once and DPP with written "Arrangements made by Pip Williams" to make it more evident. I don't know what else he could have done other than writing it on the booklets and telling everywhere in interviews . Pip was even present at the gig they had at the beginning of the Once tour in Kitee.

Phantom wrote on 04.07.2009 at 19:35
Anette hired manager, personal assistant and life-coach? Maybe she should hire another singer to take her place in NW instead of her, lol

Lola wrote on 04.07.2009 at 20:42
Mimi is Anette's manager AND assistant. Two things in one person. So she has a life-coach AND manager/assistant. There is not third person around her taking care of her PERSONAL things. Ewo is the one who takes care of THE BAND THINGS which INCLUDES ANETTE.

Btw, here are Anette's clothes in Metal Camp: http://photos.2bconfirmed.at/displayimage.php?album=197&pos=29

In my opinion, that is one of the best clothings Anette has had during her career in Nightwish. She looks damn good in her blonde hair. :)

Well gotta go. Good night(wish) to all of you! Remember play nice! <3

C wrote on 04.07.2009 at 23:53
"Mimi is Anette's manager AND assistant. Two things in one person. So she has a life-coach AND manager/assistant. There is not third person around her taking care of her PERSONAL things."

If I remember her manager was a guy and Mimi is a woman's name. Oh did he change sex already? BTW, two persons are already too much for someone who is over 30.

"Btw, here are Anette's clothes in Metal Camp: http://photos.2bconfirmed.at/displayimage.php?album=197&pos=29
In my opinion, that is one of the best clothings Anette has had during her career in Nightwish. She looks damn good in her blonde hair. :) "

Well, now when she's got fatter, it looks pretty bad with her figure, but maybe less embarrassing than all her other clothes, lol

Anneke wrote on 05.07.2009 at 00:18
@Mermaid,

About Maan Mainiot (Tuomas documentary)...... it seriously calmed me down, I mean it's quite depressing... that guy definitively doesn't seem happy in life, he almost made die his brother of nostalgia in this wood recalling their old memories...
I really don't know what to think about him... without all that story with Tarja and some details revealed in their official biography I would have even felt some kind of empathy for him, he truly seems a lost guy and tormented mind.

TT wrote on 05.07.2009 at 05:16
TheSeer said (about the official bio) :

"There will be a whole chapter dedicated to Tarja's complaining on Lappi mosquitos. :-) "

I got it!! :)))
poor Tarja!! Watching again the 'Sleeping Sun' video I can imagine easily the nightmare, but I understand the mosquitos :)

I've already read more than 100 pages... it seems Tarja was definitely more professional and took very seriously all of this since the very beginning... I'm sorry to learn Tuomas somehow prevented the other members to really get involved in the songwriting process... I understand better now why they got involved in various side projects... I guess the growing success helped also to forget the old quarrels.

TT wrote on 05.07.2009 at 05:40
"I'm sorry to learn Tuomas somehow prevented the other members to really get involved in the songwriting process"

Uhm as far as I remember, I'm not sure he prevented them. There was an issue because they wanted to share the rights and obviously Tuomas , who wrote most of the stuff, didn't . In the end the other guys won because they shared their rights.
Anyway, Tuomas lets the other write music now

SeekAndDestroy wrote on 05.07.2009 at 10:49
"Anyway, Tuomas lets the other write music now"

Now- yes, but it wasn't that from the start. Think about it.

"he truly seems a lost guy and tormented mind. "

Nothing is always the way it seems ;) Besides, if you are yourself feel bad doesn't mean you must make scapegoats out of others for your sufferings. Just a hint. After all drama he made and the band still makes thanks to him, I really can't feel any sympathy towards such person he became (or always has been).

Anette with all her unprofessionalism and diva attitude really digusts. Instead of singing better or chosing clothes with some taste she hires more people and write stupid blogs. Egocentric.

Tim wrote on 05.07.2009 at 15:03
@tim
well said dude !!

@SeekAndDestroy

the book says that Tuomas, in the beginning, decided finally to generously share for two years his rights with the others but it's obviously not the case anymore, he said himself it was a very naive/stupid thing to do at the time.
As for letting the others write music now, it's another story... if you read the credits of their albums you can see it's very few, more like letting the steam out than really treating them
as equals, band mates or just friends :

ANGELS FALL FIRST : lyrics by Tuomas/music by NIGHTWISH

OCEANBORN : lyrics/music by Tuomas, except :
- Sacrament of Wilderness : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu

WISHMASTER : lyrics/music by Tuomas, except :
- Come Cover Me : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu
- Bare Grace Misery : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu
- Crownless : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu

CENTURY CHILD : lyrics/music by Tuomas, except :
- Long Lost Love : Tuomas / Marco
- One More Night To Live : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu
- Slaying The Dreamer : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu

ONCE : lyrics/music by Tuomas, except :
- Higher Than Hope : Tuomas / Tuomas-Marco
- Romanticide : Tuomas / Tuomas-Marco
- The Siren : Tuomas / Tuomas-Emppu

DPP : lyrics/music by Tuomas, except :
- Whoever Brings The Night : Tuomas / Emppu
- The Islander : Tuomas / Marco
- 7 days to the wolves : Tuomas / Tuomas-Marco

so...

No lyrics ever written by another member but Tuomas.
Only the music of 3 songs has been entirely written by another member (Emppu & Marco).
It's like Tuomas, for each album, allow them to contribute only for three songs (?!).
No doubt that Emppu, and the book confirmed it, felt the more frustrated and was looking for a better place in the 'band' than a simple performer.

I think personally it's a pity and very small-minded not to have let the other members fully express themselves considering that Nw, at the beginning, was a real band brought to life
spontaneously (from the desire of Tuomas to create this concept) apparently for the sake of music only, not to satisfy some self-interests. I guess the disinterest of Sami for NW that led him to be sacked by Tuomas is directly linked to that situation also.

NW was and remains the selfish child's dream of Tuomas, keeping the power of life and death over it, and having the right to change its form at will, like it did with Tarja.

It seems it has just become a business now... I guess this is the price to make a living from art anyway.

The spirit leaves first, then the flesh... the first Era was the one of the spirit...

TT wrote on 05.07.2009 at 19:22
@TT
I bet that before firing Tarja the fact NW was Holopainen's dream was totally ok.

Yes he said he WANTS to write lyrics by himself. So?
Tuomas founded the band because he wanted to write songs, the others were free to go if they didn't like it . Emppu complained maybe but I guess in the end he liked the cash since he's still in the band enjoying the rock 'n roll glamour. XD
I guess Mikael Arkenfeldt from Opeth should be considered egoistical, childish, selfish, small minded nazi freak and and bla bla bla too because he writes 95 percent of Opeth material. XD Or maybe Opeth are not a band for you?

Gotcha? XD

Phantom wrote on 05.07.2009 at 20:08
@TT you know what someone with balls would have probably answered to Jukka and Emppu who complained about not having enough cash from the rights or not writing too much stuff? This: "If you don't like it leave and found your own band"
But Tuomas has not enough balls.

Seems they liked it though, Jukka liked it soo much that he's now managing basically the financial issues of Scene Nation Oy, Nightwish company .

Phantom wrote on 05.07.2009 at 20:14
@TT Of course it's all for the money , or better to say ALSO for the money . Not just in the "new era" .
Did you guys wake up just now? :P ;)

Metallica is among my favourite bands, they basically do everything for the money now. I still don't crucify them. Last time I saw they still put up a hell of a show, although it was for the money . I paid my cash and enjoyed the show. That's called living in a consumistic society XD
I thought I was the naive one here.

Phantom wrote on 05.07.2009 at 20:24
Legeon you are sick! Thats all I have to say. She didnt accuse Tarja, She has said that she would love to meet her and thinks that she has a beautiful voice.
Tarja too had a personal Manager, if you dont remember, and Marcelo also was her assistant.
Anette Olzon indeed is a really modest woman. If you have not lived a day in her shoes stop the bullshit!

Get real Legeon wrote on 05.07.2009 at 21:31
Legeon sounds like he/she gets really excited about Anette. Where does this obsession of yours come from??
These quotes hardly are the whole interview and who is Anette accusing? She is simply answering questions, giving reasons to her break down.
Anette haters, have you given a single thought of how hard the time in Nightwish has been to her?? Of course you havnt.
Of course manager and assistant are the different person, unless you are married to your manager like Tarja was.
I personally have been wondering from the start why Anette never had her assistant. Thank god she has now.
The most of the pressure has been on her shoulders, she was a rookie, with no one to take care of her, no one speaking her mother tongue etc.
Legeon you should somehow set your obsession and rage free, for gods sake isnt this unhealthy to you?? Your view about Anette is completely twisted, she disgusts you yet you read her blog everyday!! Wtf??? Maybe you should tell Anette how you feel, and see what she answers to you. Do it on her blog. If you are man enough.

Katt wrote on 05.07.2009 at 21:53
"The most of the pressure has been on her shoulders, she was a rookie, with no one to take care of her, no one speaking her mother tongue etc. "

oh poor rookie lol . She was well aware of what she was going through when she joined Nightwish. Maybe she was a bit naive and thought it was easy, neverthless she should have expected some harsh reactions from some fanatic fans and leaving the stage like this is still unprofessional.
Funny 'cause Tarja has being called a diva by die hard NW fans because she had a manager, personal site, own merchandise..today , after 2 years, Anette did the same (nothing wrong, her choices) but she's still a "poor rookie" lol

Phantom wrote on 05.07.2009 at 22:11
@Mermaid: Did you see that they guy who accused MJ of abuse, confessed he made it up forced by his father who wanted to run away from the poor life? The man was innocent after all!

Mwaha wrote on 05.07.2009 at 22:59
"She didnt accuse Tarja, She has said that she would love to meet her and thinks that she has a beautiful voice.
Tarja too had a personal Manager, if you dont remember, and Marcelo also was her assistant.
Anette Olzon indeed is a really modest woman. If you have not lived a day in her shoes stop the bullshit! "

Oh how sweet ,another NW die hard who can't see things in real light. You guys must grow up on trees. All this stuff about she said she would love to meet Tarja blah blah, blah is just diplomacy, nothing more and you are already wanting to give her a medal for it.Lol

Bad Tarja hired her manager? Oh....bad,bad girl. When did she hire her manager? Around 2002-2003? She was by that time almost 6-7 years in the band, she had three studio albums with the band, one EP, one DVD, if I'm not mistaken She opened her own site in 2004! After 8 years with the band, five studio albums, two DVD, one EP and lots of touring!

And sweet Annette hired not only manager, but assistant, some life coach, opened her personal site for something nobody truly could understand and even with her blog, after 2 years with the band, only one studio album, short semi-live album (looks like excuse for the real live album) and with still unfinnished tour!

And she is still a poor rookie! A grown up 36 year old woman or how old was she, came to the famous metal band and expected it would be piece of cake to fit in and she started to dramatize after she released that it wouldn't be so pinky simple?! Who is a bigger diva after that!

Lisa wrote on 05.07.2009 at 23:27
@Lisa
it's not a competition to who is the biggest diva here . Both Tarja and Anette had a valid reason for getting help from a manager

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 01:01
@Lisa and rest of the Anette/Nightwish haters

Since Tarja was such a professional (did she get fired because of her professionalism btw) have you ever thought about the fact that she grew up in Nightwish, together with the guys. They were all amateurs and learnt everything together. There wasnt any expectations by huge masses of fans.
How do you think she would have felt if she was thrown in to the middle of the same situation Anette has been in.
I think you havnt, you are just swelling in your own selfish bitternes. So if Epica makes better music than Nightwish why do you have to prove it here?? Isnt it great that theres a better band than Nightwish?? Why do you even care about them anymore??
Please...you guys are so transparent..

So Anettes words are diplomacy when she says something sweet about your goddes,yeah it has to be otherwise you couldnt make anything bad about it. And when she tells honestly how she has felt and how hard the year has been to her, its a great opportunity for you guys to slander her.
You just have forgotten one thing: she did survive. She is still here. She is smart enough to get help when needed.

ps.she didnt insult any fans by telling about people throwing her with Tarja pictures. And btw those people arent fans they are haters! No Nightwish fan would ever do something like that.
Those kind of people dont deserve her, or anyones respect. They bring shame to Tarjas fan base. And Tarja doesent deserve it.

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 01:09
@Phantom,

Ideally, joining a rock/metal band is about sharing creativity/the songwriting process with the other members and treating each other as equals, but things obviously aren't so simple in real life.

It seems Tuomas quickly chose to make NW work like an orchestra, with himself as the writer, composer and conductor. Just like for Therion, the formula proved to be successful even if, artistically, it can be very frustrating for the other members who end to be just studio/live beasts.

Anyway, about those quarrels within the band we will never know exactly the truth, and who cares actually !? I mean except Tero here ;)

About Tuomas having no balls, everyone know it since this open letter and what he did afterwards. No big deal !! he has proved you don't need some to make good music anyway. Tuomas and his fellows already got lots of life lessons and probably will get freaking more with Anette.

One painful lesson already learnt is that a woman can actually have balls, even more than themselves, and remain a knight towards those that have betrayed.

TT wrote on 06.07.2009 at 01:26
@Katt and Get Real Legeon

No,i am not sick,it's summer,thanx for you caring.
The only sick here are you guys.There are almost 200 comments in this page,most of them pointing out Anette's and NW's mistakes,but you decided that me,who posted some comments last week(in this huge number of 200)am sick.

I am not sick for not liking your precious sweetheart.
I am not sick for not liking a singer ex-hairdresser just because she was chosen by a band.
I am not sick for not falling for her teenage crap about love,peace and ending wars,when in the same time she spends more money that one person's salary in a single outfit.
I am not sick for not appreciating anymore a band that bases its all fame in tabloid stories and media attention.

Oh,Anette said that she would like to meet Tarja...Oh,she must be a really noble and kind person right?Guys,what you expect her to say? "Tarja is suck a bitch"?
I may be sick,but you certainly are naive and stupid to believe that she meant that.
If she was noble,she wouldn't say all these bad things about countries and fans.
Byt no no no,you only notice that Tarja is a bitch,you say that she is a greedy diva when at the same time Anette says "get sure you get paid for everything".

Lisa is right.Tarja waited for many years and albums to hire a manager,Anette didn't wait even the second album.

No,watching a comedy isn't twisted right?Then why you say i am for reading Anette's blog?She offers so much comfort in rainy days.But of course,after her last posts for peace and "telling all the rulers of the world to end wars" i can't decide.
If she tells that teenage crap to be more attractive to her young fans girls,that makes her a liar.
If she believes what she says,then she must be extremely immature and uneducated.Ok,i don't expect her to know about politics,but honestly,being a middle-aged woman with a kid and believing all tha crap shows lack of maturity and capability of thinking like an adult.

No,i am not man enough.Having breats doesn't really qualify you as "man".

As NW fans,you choose to believe that a person not appreciating your favorite shopaholic is "sick".
Why am i not surprised?
For me,the really sick persons are the ones who call others like that just because they see more than them.

And finally yes,i don't live like her.Because i face REAL problems,not what fridge i should buy or the gargatual problems of red eye from allergy.
At least this is the world she describes in her blog.

Not to mention her causing-laughs-to-death lecture of people being unique and not like others.The same person who copies/tries to copy every freaking model and fashion ad in planet Earth.

ps.If you are to answer to me,please do it with some arguments in which you'll add at least a tiny ammount of intellectuality,more than "you're sick".Please.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 01:46
And why shouldnt Anette have her own site and blog??
There isnt any reason why she shouldnt.
She has them because she wants to and can do it.
She wants to communicate with her fans on her blog. And you haters can complain about it as much as you want to, but there isnt anything you can do about it.
ps. Before you claim that I hate Tarja I want to tell you that I dont. I love her almost as much as I love Nightwish .
Yes there are people who can enjoy both of these artists. You cant and its your loss.

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 01:49
YES!!! I AM COMMENT NUMBER 200!!! XD

Sorry, I was just being funny! Continue on. :)

JT wrote on 06.07.2009 at 04:33
@TT
"Ideally, joining a rock/metal band is about sharing creativity/the songwriting process with the other members and treating each other as equals, but things obviously aren't so simple in real life. "

No it's not necessairly like this. You have countless examples of amazing bands in which the main songwriter is one person or two. And to add one more thing, it's not that the guys are totally "useless" , there is a thing called rehearsal, arrangements. Tuomas provides the main melody, but the actual process of shaping the form of the final version of the songs is made together , and sometimes the song is totally changed from Tuomas original idea.

So, it doesn't exactly work like an orchestra as you see.
;)

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 09:27
@Guy , there is no sense in keeping a discussion with you . You are so stuck up with your uncoherent theory just because you like to picture Tuomas as an emotionless freak without not even noticing that what I'm actually saying about him doesn't make him noble, or oceansoul and all the shit you are talking about but makes him equally negative as you are trying so hard to picture him.

"Oh, so you have megalomania to say that EVERYBODY interpreted the lyrics like you did"
No but a vast majority of people because, guess what, there is not so much left to interpretation.

"It means that he has lots of negative feelings towards his ex-singer and her husband, dude.

"well, another of his lost-romantic-lonely-missing attitudes. He needed to keep up with his Romantic image. "
while, according to you, he suddenly gets real and stabs her in the other song ..lol that's called perfect logic man!

"Why not? He didn't know Tuomas for long or close and toumas pretty well did with his pose of eternal longing for someone"
Did you actually read what he wrote? He reported facts saying that he spoke to Tuomas and he said those things he said. He didn't say "yes I thought Tuomas was in love with her because bla bla" . If a random dude call me and ask me "are you in love with person x, stop trying with her" and I'm not , I'm going to tell him "Fuck you I'm not" not what Tuomas told. Maybe Marcelo wanted to picture Tuomas as the lovelorn oceansoul poet too lol , for some mysterious reason you have in mind XD

"And btw, you are obviously so keen on this love thing, so eager to protect Tuomas no matter what in this field."
I'm so keen because actually it makes sense and I'm pretty sure there is truth, and there are things called evidences (mainly Marcelo declarations and the fact Tuomas didn't deny it fully.). You know , he could have posed of being lovelorn for someone else instead of passing for the coward who fired Tarja also for jealousy. Because thanks to Marcelo that's the image he gives of Tuomas, a coward who fired her in this way also for jealousy . If this is a romantic, positive, lovelorn bullshit for you then I don't know what to think. For me is being pathethic, childish and coward.

"And you also clearly live with him to say for sure that he is really so shy? "
I said I think, because a person who is born shy cannot easily change from A to B . He can gets better because you achieve success in your life, but most of the time you partially remain the character you were . And it doesn't seem that Tuomas has been such an extroverted guy at the beginning. Anyway, does it makes better or worst being shy? Shyness does not mean better person. Quite the contrary. But you are so convinced that if I'm saying he's shy it means I'm justyfying him lol.

"I also do not see these lyrics as such sweet ones, they are more of feeling compassion kind"
they are surely cheesy as much as the lovelorn poses you are complaining of.
"So why not feel sorry for him a bit. "
Because you don't address songs to people you didn't give a damn about (it's not a question of being woman or man) , especially songs with such words and feel sorry for the idiot who kicked you out. After being treated like that the last thing you do is feeling sorry for his inner bullshit turmoil (since you said it's bullshit most of the time) especially if you have never cared (as friend) for this person.

"BTW, romantic, shy dude and just a good person who really loved that woman wouldn't have fired her via open letter...Real man gotta remeber it and do it, it is the thing what makes them real man and proves they loved that girl or woman. "

You got your answer dude. Not everybody is brave, real man, good person as you in this world . There is something called anger, frustration, jelousy , cowdardy even towards the person you "love" (in your own way) ..why do you think people often hurt so much other people they love? Never heard in the news of so called "jelousy crimes" ?. And there is also something called "interests for the band" , doing your own interests instead of taking in consideration the others interests. And the two things can go perfectly together if you think about it. People are not always good and real men, sometimes put their own job before everything, and people sometimes might act as total jerks because of frustration.

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 10:24
Mwaha:
I am not the one who said that things about MJ here. It was I think Phantom, who minded the comparison to Maestro, done by me and two other guys.

Almagest:
well said, Almagest.

Legeon: Good to see you after all this time.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:13
TT:
I received (like few weeks ago) a response to Maan Mainiot from Daniela, I think. She said she could not stand it, because he looked hypocritical to her.

Well, I think he was clearly exaggerating and posing.
When MJ came with the song and cd "Bad" rumour was that Prince said it should be "Pathetic" instead of "Bad".

Imagine the song: "You know I am pathetic, you are pathetic..."

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:18
@Katt

Nobody said that she shouldn't have her own blog or that she should close it.
WE just COMMENT ON IT.
There is poverty in the world,which we cannot change.But that means that we shouldn't talk about it either?
Just an example.
Since 2005.i used to enjoy both artists,i bought two copies of DDP(normal and limited),one copy of Amaranth and paid for one show(only 1 show on Greece).
BUT after all that noise and the damage NW has done to Tarja and mostly,the band itself,i simply cannot listen to them anymore.
Because i don't like what they are now.With all those talking about Tarja,signing with water companies,not making good shows...These are just examples.
I also realised that their music isn't such a great thing after all.They just have some catchy riffs and melodies,and MANY orchestral parts-rips off of Hans Zimmer.They don't qualify as a symphonic metal band with just some orchestral parts,yet their fans claim that they are the best symphonic metal band and the first ones to do that,when that is obviously wrong.
(all that from a person who has been a dedicated fan for 8 years.I think i have the right to comment.)

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:20
Legeon:

Many fat boys DO have breasts, maybe even bigger then many women.
That does not qualify them as women, though.
Many women have guts tiwce bigger then an average man. That does not qualify them as men, though.

Good message is that we have at least one die-hard here - the last man standing.

D youu really mean that part about stopping wars? When EXACTLY is she going to tell to politicians to stop the war? That would be something I would definitely preffer not to miss.

Is she going to tell them all personally? Or adress them with an open letter, (traditional with NW, is not it?)

As for her suddenly nice feelings to Tarja - have you noticed that they are not getting some practical use? Or have these two girls been doing some shopping and having a nice supper together already? I do not know everything not being a finnish...

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:34
"It was I think Phantom, who minded the comparison to Maestro, done by me and two other guys. "

because totally ridiculous and out of place...

You are still discussing about your paththic Poser Holopainen mermaid? XD I thought you get over him, fangirl XD

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:36
Legeon:

you ahev a right to comment on anything, as far as this is Metal from Finland, and it is not ment just for NW or Tarja fans excuisitly, as Tero kindly reminded us on other article.

If it would be for Tarja or NW fans ONLY it would be most probably called DramafromFinnland (thanks Tero for this one)

To ALL: who of you are NW haters? Just to clarify positions.... I still do not know what does that mean.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:40
Katt

you did get this one wrong. Nobody here wants Anette to shut down her blog or web page.
Quite contrary, the more blogs and webpages she would have the more fun for us all.

And is is a pitty Anette could wear one dress at the time only and does not change - for the same reason what is mentioned above.

Mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:45
"To ALL: who of you are NW haters? Just to clarify positions.... I still do not know what does that mean."

You maybe?
No wait , Nightwish demolition crew actually. XD
You are making Tuomas a huge publicity , mermaid

I'm personally a Nightwish fan critical towards the attitude of the band

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 11:50
@mermaid

Yes,Anette said in her blog,replying to someone who aksed her who she would like to have dinner with,among others she said that she would like to speak with the world rulers to end all wars.

There are 2 possibilities.That she says all that just to be more sweet to her fan girls with these teenage crap or
She actually believes all that.Which means that she must be extremely immature,uneducated,uncultured,uninformed...
Ok,i don't expect her to be an expert in politics,but saying that world rulers make the wars and we should speak to them and make them end it,is what a not even a teenager would say,but a kid.
What she actually BELIEVES that world rulers cause wars?And for what,just for fun?

All that from the self-centered Anette,who promotes an image of her life through her blog as a comfortable every-day routine made of expensive clothing,searching fot the perfect walpaper,poems about herself,many superficial pseudo-pholosophical wondering and her adventures with Mimi.
But no,not a diva.At all.Tarja is a diva because she talks about her shows and her composing process.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:16
@ Legeon

"Oh,Anette said that she would like to meet Tarja...Oh,she must be a really noble and kind person right?Guys,what you expect her to say? "Tarja is suck a bitch"?"

Why wouldnt she want to meet Tarja?? Im pretty sure it would be really interesting for her to talk to her. If I was her I personally would love to meet the ex front woman.
If she didnt want to meet her and didnt think much of her she could have said something like: I dont know her, but it seems shes nice.

"Not to mention her causing-laughs-to-death lecture of people being unique and not like others.The same person who copies/tries to copy every freaking model and fashion ad in planet Earth."
She happens to be interested about fashion, like most of the women on this planet. So what should she do make the clothes her self and not buy them so she would seem a copy cat to you?? She buys them and combines them in her own way. havent you noticed, her clothes are pretty freaky sometimes.

"And finally yes,i don't live like her.Because i face REAL problems,not what fridge i should buy or the gargatual problems of red eye from allergy.
At least this is the world she describes in her blog."

Ha ha ha ha ha! So what are your real problems then?? Do you spend your days wondering how to save the world?? Or what??
Oh gosh, lighten up!! What a bore you are!
It is Anettes personal blog, she writes about random things, not about politics. And btw you seem to get really irritated when she talks about her real problems, so I guess there isnt anything she can do to make you not hate her guts.

"If she was noble,she wouldn't say all these bad things about countries and fans."
Fans do not throw her with pictures of Tarja, that is an act of a hater. They dont deserve her or anyones respect. They put Tarjas fans to shame, and Tarja doesent deserve it. it is disgusting. Anette has no reason to kneel down to these people. And why would she need to be noble??

"Byt no no no,you only notice that Tarja is a bitch,you say that she is a greedy diva when at the same time Anette says "get sure you get paid for everything"."
How dare you claim that I would ever call Tarja a greedy diva!!
I have never done so and I never will. I respect the woman.
You know what. The people doing this are just the same kind of idiots as you are. You are all the same. Incapable to objective thinking. Seeing only what you want to see.
Of course you have to be sure to get paid of everything, you would be an amateur and an idiot if you didnt.

"For me,the really sick persons are the ones who call others like that just because they see more than them."

And what is the more that you see?? To me it seems that your brain is programmed to hate her. If she says something sweet it is either naive or a lie.
And all the rest, her mistakes or breakdown are perfect opportunities for you to slander her.
I do not claim her to be a saint, nor do I claim that she is not.

"If she believes what she says,then she must be extremely immature and uneducated.Ok,i don't expect her to know about politics,but honestly,being a middle-aged woman with a kid and believing all tha crap shows lack of maturity and capability of thinking like an adult."

what crap? She isnt giving any answers to the these things, she is just writing questions, her thoughts, why are we this and that. She is interested to know what her fans think about this. And Im sure all of us wonder about the same things without having answers to them. And most of the things cant be changed.

So if Anette is only entertainment to you why do you get so "disgusted"..??

Anette Olzon seems to be a really opened up person. She answers a question when it is asked. Maybe in time she will learn to be more diplomatic but I hope she doesent.

And to you all. Nightwish aren the only band with problems! Hell, Metallica even hired a shrink to help them get along. They do not seek attention from the tabloids. Anettes breakdown just happened, and of course they had to give an explanation to it.

And Legeon, I really suggest you to tell Anette how you feel, since she seems to have such a huge affect on your life.

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:17
Katt:

You did this one wrong, too, It is me and TheSeer having fun thanks to Anette.
Legeon is truly disgusted, as far as I understand it. She is after all, greek, and that might be part of the reason, you know.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:29
@Katt don't bother yourself with these 3 guys here. Their mission is to bother everybody who doesn't agree with them even if in the end they contraddict herself XD . The mission is to take every comma or word literally Anette and Nightwish say in interview to twist them in their favour XD.
They are having fun ;) . So take it easy and have a laugh with them lol

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:43
I bet mermaid is a ex Poser Holopainen fangirl . She's probably deluded that the handsome prince is not noble as he looked like and that is human after all . And now she's angry with him ...lol ;)

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:47
@mermaid
I dont buy this: Anette is just entertainment to us. You are so obsessed with her and Nightwish. Even though you dont like them. The more you talk about them the more you are proving this.

@legeon
I think you are the most obsessed, you analyze every single word she says. Does it make you feel jealous that she has the money to buy designer clothes. Should she only shop at h&m?
And what is this Tarja=greedy diva thing?????
Do you think that she is one??? I mean it really seems so because you have to keep mentioning it all the time even though we are not even talking about it.
I dont think that Tarja is greedy, nor diva. She is just being reasonable.

ps:Im sure that if it was Tarja being as opened up as Anette and talking about similar things you would be fangirling all over her blog heh heh..

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:47
@ phantom, yeah. this is true :)
I just find it really weird how some people can be this affected with Anette and Nightwish. They dont even know them and dont even like them.

But I guess we all have different ways to spend our days.

Note: Before anyone of you claim that I am a blind Nightwish fans who only believe good about them and think that they are noble/saint. This is not the case. I am not interested about their personal life. And I wouldnt define their persona because I dont know them personally.

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:53
@Katt

Wow,a whole delirium of crap,i hard to choose which to answer first.Not only you didn't understand ANYTHING i said,you keep attacking me.Wow.

Ok,let's start.
I don't care if she wants to meet her,but the fact that she said that doesn't mean that it is true.Her managfer is doing his work just fine.

When i mentioned her ranting on originality,i didn't mean her outfits.Read her blog and then attack me.SHE posted a whole crtap of whining about people not wanting her to be original and that everyone should be original.
But copying models' look doesn't make you original.Not at all.

Yes,girl,my every day life has more problems than hers,at least as she pictures her life.I have to pass my courses in University,i have a gob to attend to(everyday,10 hours,like normal people),a home to take care of alone.Yes,my life seems more difficult than searching for the perfect wallpaper.

But every now and then,i escape my reality and have an extreme ammount of fun through something called "Anette's blog".
Lately she has started to disgust me with her accusations for people in Brazil for HER nervous breakdown.

We are not blind girl.Tarja hasn't told anyone what they should listen and like,or called other artists' work "crap".

No,i am not programmed to dislike Anette.Why should i?I was expet with anxiety like all NW fans the new singer.
But i just can't stand her,not because she replaced Tarja,but because of her singing,dancing on stage,the way she behaves,how soon she turned into a diva,stuff like that.

On the other hand,Tuomas' fans believe that whatever HE says is an undeniable truth.

Her "crap",is her crap on peace,love and end of wars,when she spends large ammounts of money on clothing.She has the right to,but then she should not wonder and worry about poverty and wars.
You don't have to be an expert in politics to know that wars aren't decided by world rulers.Or that they can stop them if we tell them to...God!!!

Yes,other bands have problems too,but this page is about NW,in case you didn't notice.

"They do not seek media attention"
And then you say you are not blindfolded.Yes,all that bad mouthing about Tarja,breakdowns,scandals,are just bad luck...Jesus!

No,she has ZERO impact in my life,except of course some minutes of laughing.

End of it.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 12:55
@Katt

Wow,you prove one more time that NW fans are just like Jonas Brothers' fans.
HOW THE HELL you manage to realize that if we bash an artist,we are jealous of him/her?
I HAVE the money to but expensive stuff.I just 1)don't advertise it
2)prefer to spend them on more important things.Like books.Ever heard of them?

Don't assume anything little fan girl.Assuming is the last ressort of someone who lacks arguments.
I appreciate Tarja EXACTLY because she doesn't talk about that kind of shit.

No,i am not obsessed.Read some psychology first.

@Phantom

Yes,and it seems that NW fan girls decide to attack anyone criticizing NW with their intellectual "get a life".

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:06
Legeon,

Seriously. Two teenage girls are but two teenage girls.

OK. Now regarding this world leaders thing - and how good idea that Anette would like to persuade to stop wars - have you not know?

Off course they start wars, they even plan it. They have special calendar with months booked for different wars.

Like:
May: to start a war with Etipia.
June: to finish a war with China.

And that is where Anette could come at hand. She can juts sponsor new calendar (with her pictures, naturally, so we will have more outfits)
and do the planning in advance.

May: to start no war might be an example

:-)

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:13
@Legeon

You dint give me any answers at all. You just repeated the program on your brain like a machine.

And yes your brain are programmed to hate her as long as you cant give the benefit of doubt, as long as you keep thinking that every thing she says or does is wrong.
Aaw Im sowwy about the pressure you feel about your studies, poor you. Life must be really hard on you.
And reading about wall papers must make you jealous as hell.
That Anette actually has the nerve to talk about them while you are feeling all this pressure. Again, im not buying this entertainment thing. You are obsessed with Anette Olzon. Even more obsessed than with Tarja.

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:14
@Legeon
"Yes,and it seems that NW fan girls decide to attack anyone criticizing NW with their intellectual "get a life". "

Lol
Darling XD I actually agree with "some" of your points not with others (especially mermaid, she has some very weird points sometimes XD ;) ) . See? that's the proof that being critical can cohesist with liking Nightwish (or Tarja, or both) XD

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:27
@Katt

Yes,because you're in my mind,and see how programmed it is.

I have the advantage to think of my own,i don't need Tuomas or Anette to tell me what to think.I don't need anyone to program me to dislike an unprofessional singer who insulted my country,after giving an hideous show.

So,someone NOT bitching about his/her problems need psychiatric help,but someone bitching about wallpapers is just fine.

Then you call me programmed.

I am over with this shit.I used FACTS and arguments,you only use the "you are obsessed" shit EVERY hurt NW fan girl says every time someone criticizes your sweetheart.
If you want to discuss like normal persons,be my guest.
Enough with your crap for my mental health.

But why am i surprised?NW fans aren't known for their intellectuality.
At least not any more.

And now that you noticed my 2% contribution in this page of 200 comments,try to attack someone else who posted just a few comments.

Really smart.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:39
Legeon:

why do you think NW fans and Jonas brothers fans are not the same people?

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 13:50
@mermaid

I was just hoping.But obviously these fans girls don't let me.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 14:04
@Legeon
"I am over with this shit.I used FACTS and arguments"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Yeah right, the hate program in your brain makes up its own facts, dear.

"So,someone NOT bitching about his/her problems need psychiatric help,but someone bitching about wallpapers is just fine."
This is a perfect example of your bullshit. When Anette is talking about how exicted she is to have new wallpapers, your brain transforms it to "bitching about wallpapers"
And you even think that when she talks about wallpapers she needs psychiatric help. Lol!

And did I say that you need help? No I didnt, but you just did. And Im not talking about your mental heath I just think you are obsessed. Thats all. :)

Katt wrote on 06.07.2009 at 14:30
@Katt

RIP intellectuality.

When someone is obssessive needs psychiatric help.
Another uneducated NW fan.Not something original.

YOU girl said that me who mentioned that i have more serious problems,is wrong.
But it's right to make an allergy look like a fatal decease right?
Yes,i use facts,What Anette says in her blog.Not what i think,but what she says.
I see your only argument you say again and again is that i am programmed.
God,you can't think of anything better?Is this your best shot?

As i said before(but you chose to ingore it) i was not programmed to hate Anette.I actually liked her in the beginning that i hadn't heard her live and she hadn't said all this shit.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 14:54
gee....such an attention for such a "poor" band :D honestly I really don´t care about who says what in interviews.
I like them because of the music which they are making or made. And once when I don´t like someone I don´t bother to read, criticize him/she but this is the other story.
I am a Nw fan also Tarjas but the last things which I learnt about her, dissapointed me a lot and only prove me that calling her diva does make to me more sense nowadays. (I don´t have it from biography) :P
I like Tuomas for one thing that he admitted that the song BBB and the other are about Tarja while Tarja childly keep saying that the song Enough is not a direct reference to anything or anyone in particular, when it is more than obvious about what it is...
But generally people don´t judge someone who you don´t know personally and know only through interviews, you can be mistaken :) I know what I am talking about :)

Lizzie wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:04
Something interesting to comment upon:

"Ricarda:
Since the break of Tarja Nigthwish is not only because the music in the media, likewise 'cause miscellaneous band-internal dramas. How much jar it on your nerves, that poeple perceive you not anymore because the music, but due to such things? First it was the music, now it is.. ok, 50-50 is overdone, but maybe 80-20?

Tuomas:
I would say it is almost 50-50. (laughs) And yes, it bothers me a little bit, because I wonder of what people would remember in the end. Say, in 20 years, they will say "Oh, yeah, they made good music" or "Oh yeah, they've had this horrible split"? And I think it is truly 50-50 and with that we have to live until the end of our days. But yes, it bothers me."

http://www.free-blog.in/higherthanhope/95037/18.06.09+-+Tuomas+interview+%28english%29.html

Bordered or not i haven't seen them changing their tune, talk about inconsistence.

Thunder wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:13
Legeon,

do not mind a girl who did not even started her study (or failed to do so already).

She would keep to repeat her comments, which is not just boring but childish as well.

She types as if paid for quantity of HA HA or as if the number of HA HA defines the validity of what she says (i.e. proves it to be "true").

And look at her sentencies - one famous author says that number of exlamation marks is a signal of inconsistency in emotional development. :-)

(or something like that, anyway)

And as far as she calls you "dear" she most probably has a go on you. :-(

No idea where the Seer is today? We have a nice topic to discuss...

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:24
@Lizzie
and what exactly did you learn about Tarja that she's such a diva? That's so stupid calling her diva, seriously. As much as stupid as insulting Anette or Tuomas.
Me as NW fans, never heard something which give you the right to call her diva.
Explaining or not what Enough is about it's her choice, and you shouldn't judge it.

@Thunder , the situation can't be changed now. People will keep talk of NW drama (like we are doing now, after 4 years) and press is interested. Combined with the fact drama is still happening inside the band.

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:29
First of all, about Anette wanting to stop all the wars. I think the moment for that is PERFECT. Swedes have just taken the EU presidency. So go Anette, go! :-)

Phantom said: "If you read my previous post you'll find out I'm not a "fangirl""

Am I the only one here who thinks Phantom is a boy?

TT said: "I've already read more than 100 pages..."

First half of the book is written normally. However, the style changes in the second half, which is obviously written in haste with one aim - to mudsling Tarja and above all Marcelo.

Get real Legeon said: "Anette Olzon indeed is a really modest woman."

Get real Get real Legeon. :-)

Phantom said: "without not even noticing that what I'm actually saying about him doesn't make him noble, or oceansoul and all the shit you are talking about but makes him equally negative as you are trying so hard to picture him."

I knew that you're "ours" after all. :-p

mermaid said: "Good message is that we have at least one die-hard here - the last man standing."

My prayers were not in vain. *knocks on wood*

Btw mermaid, one might claim that die-hards are gone because they have smarter things to do than reading our "lifeless" discussion but the new "normal" article about Nightwish performance at Graspop has just disproven that. ;-)

Phantom said: "You are still discussing about your paththic Poser Holopainen mermaid? XD I thought you get over him, fangirl XD "

And who said, some 100 posts ago, that he would soon "get tired and spoil our fun"? XD

Phantom said: "No wait , Nightwish demolition crew actually. XD "

Armed with nothing but a couple of Tarja pics in our pockets. Hopefully someone will "live to tell the tale". XD

Katt said: "Anettes breakdown just happened, and of course they had to give an explanation to it."

An explanation? Which one are you referring to?

Phantom said: "They are having fun ;) . So take it easy and have a laugh with them lol "

I'm glad we're making your days Phantom. Was quite obvious to me even before you "decided to reveal" that. :-p

Phantom said: "Darling XD I actually agree with "some" of your points not with others"

So a person who addresses people with "dude" and "darling" at the same time lectures other about coherency. Interesting. XD

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:38
Lizzie said: "I like Tuomas for one thing that he admitted that the song BBB and the other are about Tarja while Tarja CHILDLY keep saying that the song Enough is not a direct reference to anything or anyone in particular, when it is more than obvious about what it is... "

You and me obviously have totally opposite views what is childish.

Tuomas said: "And yes, it bothers me a little bit, because I wonder of what people would remember in the end."

The age will say this poet lies... XD

mermaid said: "No idea where the Seer is today? We have a nice topic to discuss..."

I'm back! Went to Blackmore's Night concert yesterday. They rocked! Shitty organizers turned off the sound in the last song because they breached the curfew of 2h of playing. Sheiss Spandau!!! >:(

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:48
@Thunder

Good article, Thunder, but I agree with 50-50% and I would say that it will be even worse (there is a tendency in here, you know)
Still, what kind of DéJà-Vu does Maestro mean? I use to see Hartwall arena concert often, so I would like to know in which areas it is going to be the same, like the one recorded?

So, let me count: that time there was a great well lookind and certainly stunningly dressed singer.

Does this mean they will have such singer again till Hartwall arena?

They had great songs. They remembered lyrics and even how to play them - ok, this is something what might happen again...

DéJà-Vu all along BUT NOT for an open letter? What a pitty.... Still it might be fax, or an email.

But very nice of them that they reminded us - I almost forget about this Tarja matter within last week (since they last time kindly mentioned her.)

Still, looking forward to another revaling articles and interviews, the more revealing, the better.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:48
There is one serious comment I would like to have (yes, I can be serious sometimes as well) and it is with regards their SOAP OPERA rank in Finnland as Maestro nicely put that.

No idea why does he think they have it in Finnland ONLY. We are coming here from different corners of the world and I do not have a feeling that Finnish are such a majority here.

What I am trying to say is that in other countries there are NOT SO MANY comments, sure, but on the other hand people are much more upset with that, NOT being used to such things.

In my country almost nobody knows what Nightwish is, but if they know they consider it to be extremely funny. Because we never ever in our history had anything like this.

Finnish must be more adapted, sure. They after all do have this drama daily, for years and if I got Tero´s comment right, it is not the first band producing drama in vast qualities they have.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 15:56
@Seer:

Hi, Seer, how was your weekend?

I see that you saw how badly Legeon get treated here...
i have the promised comparison but I will put it in some another article - so it will not be mixed up with this.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:01
Phantom said: "@Lizzie
and what exactly did you learn about Tarja that she's such a diva? That's so stupid calling her diva, seriously. As much as stupid as insulting Anette or Tuomas."

Calling Tarja a diva is "equally stupid" as calling Anette or Tuomas a diva. Btw my name is Phantom and I do NOT take sides. If I saw a thief trying to steal purse from an old lady on the street I would do NOTHING 'cause I'm Phantom and I do NOT take sides.

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:05
"So a person who addresses people with "dude" and "darling" at the same time lectures other about coherency. Interesting. "

I thought Legeon was a man at the beginning, isn't she a woman? XD

Seer you, mermaid and legeon make an interesting threesome XD ahah

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:14
@The Seer:

The Blackmore concert had to be great thing.

OK, I have the article I promised but on ToDieFor last one entry - check it there.

We really have been missing you - Legeon had to deal with things here alone and she is not that fond of die-hards as you are. :-)

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:17
"
Calling Tarja a diva is "equally stupid" as calling Anette or Tuomas a diva. Btw my name is Phantom and I do NOT take sides. If I saw a thief trying to steal purse from an old lady on the street I would do NOTHING 'cause I'm Phantom and I do NOT take sides."

rofl , how pathethic
I don't take sides because we are not talking about politics here but about music. I'm lucky enough to like equal judgments and to think no-one is divas . I can say Tuomas open letter is a bunch of bullshits without necessairly spilling hate about him , Anette , Nightwish . I can say Tarja is not a diva without necessairly fight with people about who is more diva than whom :D .
I'm so modest :D

If we want to talk about politics I can tell you exactly which side I am :D

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:24
@TheSeer and Tuomas is not "the thief" :P since he had all the rights to fire Tarja . And Tarja not the "old lady" :D , she made her deal of bullshits too..especially Marcelo.

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:32
From that Tuomas' interview: "but we are all very... I even don't know how I may name it. Something between depletion, home sickness and just the feeling to have enough from everything. In my case it is like that. I still love it to play a concert, this 90 minutes on stage are great, but it becomes every time harder to go away from home. That tell you something. Maybe we grow old, I don't know."

Growing old with 33? What are Iron Maiden then, Metuzalems? And their 120 minutes are much less "depleted" and "home sick" than NW's 90 minutes.
I hope that Anette didn't see this interview. Not only she might get disappointed that there won't be an open letter for her like for Tarja but also to learn that she was old already 6 years ago. :-/

@mermaid: could it be that all this "depletion" and "home sickness" Nightwish members feel is because of our comments here?

Phantom said: "I thought Legeon was a man at the beginning, isn't she a woman? XD"

I would advise you to come to terms with your gender firstly. XD

"Seer you, mermaid and legeon make an interesting threesome XD ahah "

As I've already said I'm glad we're making your days. I'm sorry that we cannot stop all the wars for you though. XD

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:34
@mermaid and TheSeer

Thanx for your support...The bad thing is that all those uneducated NW fan girls will now come and say that i need other to defend me...
So,for anyone who's about to say this,and i know they are many,you should see the comments where i defend my self.And please,don't think we are obsessed with NW and Anette.This is just FOR FUN,and this page has been created for fun,videos and interviews.
We watch their moves for fun,like a serial you don't miss an episode.It's the same thing.
Got it?

@Phantom

A threesome?No,i don't think so.I don't have a problem with orgies,but i think TheSeer prefers men XD (no offence TheSeer)

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:35
@Phantom
well...if you yell at the technicians that they are unable just becasue they cannot fix everything it the venue just because you brought more equipment than it was requested and actually confirmed by your own manager than I call it unprofessional because it was her management´s fault.
But refused to sign just 5 posters for promoters that is diva´s attitude at least for me or call it somehow else.(and the way how she looked when she saw fans by her bus..) Tell me is it so terrible to sign posters for promoters? No I don´t think so..it won´t hurt her or whatever else..and she refused to do the press conference and she didn´t even explained why...she just said no. But maybe she had bad day maybe she is always like that you never know :)

Lizzie wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:35
Phantom said: "I don't take sides because we are not talking about politics here but about music."

Who's talking about music here? Wake up Phantom and go to that article about NW performance at Graspop if you want to talk about their music. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:40
@Phantom

Also,in this "threesome",add also Lisa,TT,James,Tim,Mwaha,Lola and all those other people who think the same we do.
Just mermaid and TheSeer wsant to take it LESS SERIOUSLY as the rest of us(and you) and give a lighter note.

NW fans should do the same.When someone bashes/dislikes Anette,they act like Jonas Brothers' fans when someone insults JB.

Legeon wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:45
@TheSeer , I've already told you I'm hermafrodite :D

@Lizzie ,when exactly? I've met Tarja and she cared to stop something like an hour to sign autographs for everybody after the concert.
Personally I call these episodes bad days and not being divas .

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:47
@TheSeer , you are not talking about politics either.
I 'm not a "taliban" about this matter, sorry to disappoint you

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:48
@Legeon:

You are always welcome, but we did not protect you, Legeon, so they could say what they want. :-)

Seer was not here at all and I was just adding some "wise" staff in the end -

but, honestly, to simply state that you talk to teenage girls here is not exactly defending you

- it is just an act of obsservation.

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:51
@Legeon , well you always stick together like the 3 musketeers :D

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:52
hmmm, Legeon, we told them the truth already, so they know you, me and Seer are the same person.

Phantom was so clever to find it out, so we had to give it up.

Seer,

I do not know whetehr it is us causing NW depletion and home sickness, but after reading some of their interview I feel home sich, too, and I work 35 km far from my living room only.

Have you seen Anette in last entry? What do you say about her wings?

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:55
More from that Tuomas' interview: "Yes, but I definitely won't turn into Bob Geldof, I don't want to improve the world or something to preach.. (laughs)"

Unlike some of his band mates. :-)

Phantom said: "since he had all the rights to fire Tarja . she made her deal of bullshits too..especially Marcelo."

Be careful, this smells like "taking side" for me. And you don't want that to happen, do you? :-p

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 16:58
@Seer:

Seer, please, DO NOT START to discuss politics with Phantom - look how opinionated she is - and all that while she is "taking NO SIDES"!

I REALLY would not like to be around what she would do when she takes sides!

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:02
"Be careful, this smells like "taking side" for me. And you don't want that to happen, do you? :-p"

I used the adverb TOO , which means Nightwish AND Tarja made some bullshits :D , someone bigger, the other one smaller.
I didn't know I had to do comprehension lessons comprehension lessons here :D
That's being not "taliban fundamentalists" as you and the NW fangirls are :D

@mermaid , I'd reveal you my gender ..I'm a male, sorry to disappoint you. Maybe The Seer is happy now , but I'm straight.

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:12
@phantom
24.6. this year ok bad day but even when she had bad day she shouldnt yell because it wasnt their fault. But you know even if she is pissed she should sign posters for promoters they tried to do everything for her comfort and becasue people call her good example of professional she should "clinch her teeth" and sign them.. that´s all :)

Lizzie wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:13
After a heavy consideration I must say that when I compared Maestro to MJ, it was not apt.

I said that both on them were Disney- holics, which is true.
Both of them have this interesting thing in their relationship with women, but as I said, that was valid only in this age.

When MJ was 35 he married lisa Lisa Maria Priesley. So time will tell, how this will end with Maestro. Maybe he will marry Lisa Maria Priestley, too. :-)

In this age they both looked like healthy nice good looking man.

I mentioned that both considered their art to be the most important thing for them, but this is where all similarities end. And I did not stress your attention to this, I am sorry.

There is NOTHING ELSE they do have in common.

MJ WAS a professional when it came to his music. In the age of 32 he received few Grammys already, and was appreciated for his charity on behalf of poor, hungry etc, but also for his help to people who suffered from alcohol and drungs äthat was why he was invited in WH).

Can you see similarities to Maestro in those areas? Maybe it is just me, been blind as usually...

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:22
@Seer:

That part about being Bob Geldof - fuuuu, I was stressed for a mínute that you actually mean it!

I bet Bob Geldof would be stressed too, knowing that Anette is going to compete..!

And as for wars: Go, Anette, go, go!

BTW: did you find it?

mermaid wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:30
@mermaid , thing with women? uhm?
Maestro IS professional too, sorry to disappoint you

Phantom wrote on 06.07.2009 at 17:57
mermaid said: "I do not know whetehr it is us causing NW depletion and home sickness, but after reading some of their interview I feel home sick, too, and I work 35 km far from my living room only."

You remembered me that I have to finish reading the interview. I stopped to answer to some new comments.

Here comes more from Maestro: "And now we just finished their [Indica] english album. The work was much fun now the girls are like five sisters for me"

Seems like Maestro's list of wishes for a sister is not so strict as for a wife. :-)

"Have you seen Anette in last entry? What do you say about her wings?"

I haven't yet. I've been reading bunch of Phantom's marathon comments in that Tarja's article. Spent the whole day on his comments, I'm even late for my lunch, the mensa is closed, I'll have to go to the city. I'm so happy he promised to get tired soon, else I might forget doing anything else but reading his comments every day. :-)

Btw mermaid, I found that To Die For article but I will read it when Phantom gets tired or gets life.

And about Anette's wings, it could be symbolical. Like beginning of her solo career and soaring of it into the heights unfathomable to people's minds. Not even to the ones of the world leaders.

Phantom said: "I used the adverb TOO , which means Nightwish AND Tarja made some bullshits :D , someone bigger, the other one smaller. "

Sorry I doubted at you. XD

"@mermaid , I'd reveal you my gender ..."

More revealings! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... :-p

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 18:20
Phantom said: "I'm a male, sorry to disappoint you. Maybe The Seer is happy now , but I'm straight. "

And btw why did you "decide to reveal" your sexuality too? I was accused by some moron in that Tarja article that I am fag so I just pleaded guilty under his accusations. :-) And as far as I know, nobody accused you for anything? If you want to STRESS that you cannot be my boyfriend, there's no need in doing that. I want my boyfriend to enjoy "taking sides". You know front/behind and up/down... XD

TheSeer wrote on 06.07.2009 at 18:27
that thread has become such a nasty weed !!!

TT wrote on 06.07.2009 at 20:30
Funny how the last 50-100 comments on this piece of news (and some other Nightwish-related ones) belong to 'recurrent' posters. Actually, if we were to keep count, there's probably 5-8 of you. Why don't you guys add each other on msn so that you can continue the debate forever?
I mean, no offense intended, but what are you people going to do when the news are gonna be 3 months old and comments will be disabled?
Though, if I were to take myself less seriously now, I'm 99% sure there will be other Nightwish soap opera news by then.

Seducianne wrote on 07.07.2009 at 00:45
@Legeon
No you do not state facts based on Anettes blog. All you do is quote her and make your own assumptions about them/twist her words to suit your own view about her.

Again Im asking, dont you have the guts to tell this all to her?
You could easily do it on her blog.
You act like an emo hurt kid after an incident that happened a year ago when she insulted your country. Do you take everything this hard? Or do you only live your life and disappointments through Nightwish, Tarja and Anette?
And dont pretend that she has no affect on your life since she clearly has.

Katt wrote on 07.07.2009 at 01:39
"the nightwish I once had" good one! LOL

Missay wrote on 07.07.2009 at 06:39
Please, please, please

Seer, Mermaid, and Legion never stop commenting

You 3 are saying what most people think about Maestro and his crap

Oasis wrote on 07.07.2009 at 07:35
I am still quite upset about the name of this tour - I mean DéJà-Vu?
What kind of DéJà-Vu is this supposed to be?
First we are asked every now and then NO TO COMPARE to previous vocalist (who has a name, Maestro, though you do not remember it!?) - whatever.
For years we are on monthly base (or sometimes weekly base) told that THIS IS COMPLETELY something else, or ok, vocalist was hired NOT TO BE AT ALL Tarja´s cheat cut-copy, though vision of this band DID NOT change.

OK, vision is one thing, but DéJà-Vu means something EXACTLY THE SAME (in a freaky way even - you most probably do not know Matrix here, right?)

Bands, which did not change vocalist and did not change any of member of the band would never talk about DéJà-Vu, because normally you have different songs in your set list and anyway,
even if it is not true, nobody would like to say, ok, we did not do anything new, you are paying for the same stuff, guys.

So, why do we have DéJà-Vu here? If it is meant that they are going to hire Tarja and do the same thing again (concert, open letter, etc) then I will apologize - that would be a proper DéJà-Vu.

But I still have a feeling that this is just meant to say that Anette is EXACTLY the same as Tarja - which I doubt to be true. By EXACTLY I mean voice, looks, attitude, grace, poise, costume changes even,
EVERYTHING (otherwise it would not be a proper DéJà-Vu).

When I looked at that woman on stage - I can not help myself - I do not see Tarja there. Do you?

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 10:03
Should a psychologist be here, he/she would probably say, that to call this tour DéJà-Vu tour is to persuade themselves (and an audience, too), that they are AS GOOD AS BEFORE.

Which in the end means that NW KNOWS they are not as good as they used to be.

Otherwise they would give the tour a name BETTER THEN EVER.

Or - maybe it is just me and Maestro would like to express the fact that vocalist is in fact SO POINTLESS in his creation, that even Miley Cyrus or Nena could take this position and IT STILL WILL BE a DéJà-Vu.

Or maybe it really is just me and Tarja and Anette are PRECISELY the SAME - twins, you might say.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 10:15
Seducianne,

exactly as you said, there still will be some NW article every week, sometimes even every day, by the looks of it, so we are not afraid we would not meet.

And what you would do without us? There will be hardly any comments here, then, do not you think so?

TT: No idea what you meant by last comment.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 10:19
Still - Nightwish REBORN has a DéJà-Vu tour!

I know that consistency is a sign of limited mind (as clearly stated in Eddings books) but anyway.

To see it in one sentence is completely weird.

One the other hand it could be even more interesting if Maestro would change ALL members of the band and then will come with DéJà-Vu tour - what might happen, you know?

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 10:24
"But I still have a feeling that this is just meant to say that Anette is EXACTLY the same as Tarja - which I doubt to be true. By EXACTLY I mean voice, looks, attitude, grace, poise, costume changes even,
EVERYTHING (otherwise it would not be a proper DéJà-Vu). "

ahahah , Dejà vu because they repeated the European tour not because of your weirdo films in your head lol. I remind you that the first longest leg of the tour was called Dark Passion Play tour.
I wonder how your neurons work , mermaid :D ;)

Phantom wrote on 07.07.2009 at 11:03
"that they are AS GOOD AS BEFORE. "

if that makes you happy, Tuomas never said they are better than ever XD . More like more tired, more bored than before lol

Phantom wrote on 07.07.2009 at 11:05
For teenage girls who do not know what we are talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9j%C3%A0_vu

"Déjà vu
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Déjà vu (disambiguation).
Déjà vu (pronounced /?de???? ?vu?/ ( listen); French: [de?a vy] ( listen), "already seen"; also called paramnesia, from Greek ???? "para," "near" + ????? "mn?m?," "memory") or promnesia, is the experience of feeling sure that one has witnessed or experienced a new situation previously (an individual feels as though an event has already happened or has happened in the near past), although the exact circumstances of the previous encounter are uncertain. The term was coined by a French psychic researcher, Émile Boirac (1851?1917) in his book "L'Avenir des sciences psychiques" ("The Future of Psychic Sciences"), which expanded upon an essay he wrote while an undergraduate. The experience of déjà vu is usually accompanied by a compelling sense of familiarity, and also a sense of "eeriness," "strangeness," or "weirdness." The "previous" experience is most frequently attributed to a dream, although in some cases there is a firm sense that the experience "genuinely happened" in the past. etc"

So maybe they just have a strange feeling that they have been in Europe/Hartwall arena already, but they are not so sure about that....

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 11:46
@Katt

Let me ask you a question.You use this "if you have the guts tell it to her" to everyone who disagrees with you and you are out of arguments?

Yes,i have the guts to tell her,but it requires a blogger account,which i am pretty bored to do,just to make a singer sad,annoyed or whatever.

I don't like what she is or what she does,but that doesn't mean that i have the right to go and annoy her in her own blog,when it's clearly for her fans to take part.
We are not as harsh as you think we are.We are hard in our critique,that's sure;but that doesn't mean that we take some nasty pleasure by making her sad/mad/annoyed.
On the contrary,believe my words that we would like to see her improving and not doind all the mistakes she does.
Then there will be no bitching on her.

Legeon wrote on 07.07.2009 at 13:54
@Legeon

What do you think, Legeon? And move on their new issue - this one is too large.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 14:29
Has anybody seen the Seer?

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 14:39
I still do not undestand what "guts" do you need to go to Anette´s blog and upset her?
Under made-up name?

I might go there, sign in like Micheal Jackson and tell her whatever comes to my mind - how is it "guts" related?

And as for blogger account, registration and these things - I have a few mail adresses, which would lead you to nowhere. One of them (or maybe two) are even with mermaid name...

So, I can go there in completely anonymous way and copy all of what was written here - but what would be the point? Except of huge loss of time. Will my gender change?

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 15:15
@Legeon
Im not at all out of arguments, but Im bored of repeating same things over and over again.

I think you do find sick pleasure of baching her, why would you do it otherwise?? But you are gracious enough to not tell things to her face lol..
No matter how hard I try I cant understand people like you 3, who spend their time obsessing about celebrities they hate. Isnt it more satisfying to listen and talk about artist you like?
I guess its not.
And Anette can never change to make you guys accept her. There is no way, you dont even like Nightwish, so why would you even want her to "improve".
And btw, its laughable how bitter you Tarja fans/ex Nightwish fans are.

Katt wrote on 07.07.2009 at 15:32
@ Katt

God in his mercy.... we do NOT want to improve her, you have got this one wrong, again.

First: it is not possible, in her age
Second: we are not paid to do this, even if it is possible
Third: what fun we would have, then?
Let us pray that she stays the way God created her - then we will have fun all the way long. And as far as you clearly adore her, you for sure will join us in our prayer...

So, as you see, we have the same desires here.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 15:54
Let us enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izn9jfVvLsg&feature=related

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 16:07
Where have all the die-hards gone?
Why has all the laughter ceased?
Why are they loved only when they're gone?
Gone back in time to bless the (Century) Child [=Maestro]

How humble and down-to-earth it is of Maestro to dedicate a whole album to himself. And call it Century Child. That makes those far-fetched comparisons to Franz Schubert actually near-fetched because I think not even Schubert die-hardest consider him to be the "Century Child" of the 19th century. Btw Maestro is sooooo shy. :-)

Seducianne said: "Funny how the last 50-100 comments on this piece of news (and some other Nightwish-related ones) belong to 'recurrent' posters. Actually, if we were to keep count, there's probably 5-8 of you. Why don't you guys add each other on msn so that you can continue the debate forever? "

But there are many people who say we made their day with our ever d(ream)ebate. And also some who do not say so but is obvious (like Phantom :-p). And I also dare to say (and it's NOT far-fetched at all) that there are probably people who were on the verge of committing suicide but we saved them. We have the responsibility towards such people.

We're "tired but unable to give up, since we're responsible for the lives we saved". :-)

mermaid said: "When I looked at that woman on stage - I can not help myself - I do not see Tarja there. Do you?"

And do you hear Tarja? XD

Btw, I think that by calling the tour DéJà-Vu Maestro wants to tell to the world and to the media that he is a VICTIM again. The scars from 5 years ago made by "red hot blade" of Tarja's words are STILL FRESH and the new ones are already coming. How cruel life sometimes can be, don't you think so mermaid?

"Has anybody seen the Seer?"

I'm back. Did I miss any war being stopped? :-p

TheSeer wrote on 07.07.2009 at 16:26
ehm Seer , "the child" is not the maestro (*bursts your bubble)

*yaawns
I thought it was clear and you were smart enough to understand few lyrics :( . Disappointment :(

Phantom wrote on 07.07.2009 at 16:43
Legeon said:
When i mentioned her ranting on originality,i didn't mean her outfits.Read her blog and then attack me.SHE posted a whole crtap of whining about people not wanting her to be original and that everyone should be original.
But copying models' look doesn't make you original.Not at all.

You know, Legeon, in this case I MUST DISAGREE we you - at least partially.

She is original - if you have a look on my previous posting and click on link mentioned there you will see that Anette is original as hell.

And let us pray it will stay that way even in future, because should she have followers (clons) world will be a weird place.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 16:45
@ Seer:

Have you been reading Phantom´s endless postings somewhere in previous articles again?

Actually, NO, I CAN NOT SEE and HEAR Tarja on that stage.
That is why I am so expecting this promised DéJà-Vu thing.

No war was stopped inbetween despite Anette? best efforts.

Actually, that dress of Anette what looked like potato sack was somewhere in some article called MUUMUU dress. I can not find the article at the moment, but I had and have NO IDEA what does that MMUUMMUU thing means.

Any idea from you? Or from anybody else?

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 17:02
Phantom said: "ehm Seer , "the child" is not the maestro (*bursts your bubble)

*yaawns
I thought it was clear and you were smart enough to understand few lyrics :( . Disappointment :( "

Says the same person who claims that "The Dead Boy" is also not Maestro. Just for the record. ;-)

And I'm sorry that I have disappointed you because I'm not "smart enough". Not that I don't wonder why you would care at all...

mermaid said: "Actually, that dress of Anette what looked like potato sack was somewhere in some article called MUUMUU dress. I can not find the article at the moment, but I had and have NO IDEA what does that MMUUMMUU thing means."

I have also no idea what MMUUMMUU means. I think she had that dress during USA tour. Man that was really hilarious. XD Too bad they didn't put it into that video.

TheSeer (certified) wrote on 07.07.2009 at 17:37
@Seer:

That dress was really something - I was missing it on that video, too. It definitely belonged to Anette?s "best off dresses".

Still, I will try to find it tomorrow.

There are nice comments on Tarja´s articles (Back in Suomi), too. Have a look. Have a fun.

I am leaving for today.

mermaid wrote on 07.07.2009 at 18:01
@TheSeer , yes because I think the child means something completely different from himself, maybe innocence? XD

the dead boy thing is a different story, and I was talking about Tarja's song

Phantom wrote on 07.07.2009 at 18:10
@ mermaid and TheSeer (certified)

Google: homer simpson muumuu

or

http://fatpeoplefail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/homer-simpson-muumuu.jpg

I haven't seen Annettes "MUUMUU"-dress so far, but maybe it has something to do with the picture you can find above. :D

Franziska wrote on 07.07.2009 at 18:56
I found out that this dresses are called Muumuus. They really look like potato sacks :DD

Franziska wrote on 07.07.2009 at 19:09
Phantom said: "@TheSeer , yes because I think the child means something completely different from himself, maybe innocence? XD "

That's not wrong Phantom, but it means HIS innocence. So it's not "completely different from himself". ;-) The whole Century Child album is about HIM (not Ville Valo but Maestro XD). His innocence, his hope, his love, his anger... and to call an album that is all about him Century Child doesn't sound very modest to me.

Franziska said: "http://fatpeoplefail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/homer-simpson-muumuu.jpg

I haven't seen Annettes "MUUMUU"-dress so far, but maybe it has something to do with the picture you can find above. :D "

YES, that's EXACTLY it! :-D

You can see Anette's Muumuu dress in that Nightwish article from 26.05.2009 about her singing technique. Wait until she turns around at some point to see it from behind! It's even more hilarious. XD

TheSeer wrote on 07.07.2009 at 20:27
@TheSeer , I think "the child" means innocence in general and "being a better person than the present" . I have no idea about "century" but I hardly think it's about him being the child of the century , since it's obvious from his lyrics he's more like the idiot of the century XD .
Sometimes I wonder if you are serious or not about your smart conclusions like this one because if you are then you have problems in distinguish what is to be taken literarly and what not. XD

Phantom wrote on 07.07.2009 at 20:51
@TheSeer
I've watched the video. Thanks for giving me the information where I can find it.
She looks like a crazy preacher ( like the ones, who are standing in a big crowd and talk about the apocalypse and stuff like that. Well that's how I picture them :D )
I had to turn the sound off. Otherwise I couldn't bear watching the video until she turned around and I could saw the beautiful back of this potato sack.
It was painful to watch the video, with the sound it would have been beyond all bearing.
I think Homer looks better in his Muumuu ( I love this word :D ) than Anette in her preacher-Muumuu.

P.s: Sry for my english if there is something wrong. XD

Franziska wrote on 07.07.2009 at 22:16
Well this is the last thing Im going to say to you guys;you are disgusting. I can imagine you were the bullies at school who found sick pleasure from mocking others.

Im pretty sure you are incapable of seeing how immature and mean your behavior is.
If I was you I would be concerned about your obsession to Nightwish. Its been 4 years since they fired Tarja and you are still bitter. No matter how you try to make this as a joke you know its true. I bet that most of the time you spend on internet it is spent on searching news and videos about Nightwish and Anette, and making fun of her. Pathetic..
You are exactly the mockers she talks about on her blog.

And also you are the people who has made Anette feel hurt. You think its only funny to write shit about her,she reads comments on internet, and you know it. But I guess this only amuses and satisfies you.

Katt wrote on 08.07.2009 at 01:19
@Francisca:

thanks for explanation - I was really interested. The potato sack has a name! would you belive that?

I am really missing her clothes in her webshop - and I think that her fans miss them, too.

No doubt that Katt, or other die-hards will be pleased to wear that.

Actually, I read in some interview that she considers herself to be an ambassador of Swedish designers, she even promised there she will not stop to represent swedish design abroad.

(But maybe it was a thread meant to make them giving her a signifficant discount - who knows?)

By shear accident I have a Diana´s biography in my bed (I use to read something when I can not get a sleep)
and she (on a page 174) did the same for british designers - while abroad she was rigorously wearing their products, though at home she used to wear famous french and italian fashion.

It gave me shivers when I realized we do read maybe the same book - but it gave me bigger shivers when I realized that Anette considers herself to play princess Diana role in Sweden!!

No offence meant to Swedish guys, off course, and it is clear to me that she is swedish royalty - ather all we saw her wearing her tiara even on the gig - and that is ok - she should represent her nation,

But she is far from being Princess Diana - in my opinion.

And look. She came with comments about MJ - I seriously doubt MJ knew her, and I seriously doubt that he would care for her opinion,

But as we see, everything is good enough if it makes a headlines in newspapers with her name, is not it so?

I am NOT GOING to coment that article - a vulture is but a vulture. To take her seriously would mean I do speak to vultures and I DO NOT.

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 09:59
And off course, we all have watched memorial services yesterday, though nobody wants to admit it. We are not country which gets emotional about nothing - we are not emotional about politics, about football - and we have never ever got emotional about music, too.

But this is something else - MJ is (as was mentioned yesterday) known to 99% of people. To be known does not mean the same thing as to be liked, off course, but what he did was SO remarkable that you could not just ignore that.

I am not going to put here what teenagers might say about him - and it is kind of sad thing that he is remembered for what he did NOT (at least he was not proven to did that on court)
and NOT for things he DID. It was classy of MTV that they memoried him the whole weekend after his death - they know that it was MJ who make MTV what it is. But I am not going mentioned that he is a "father" of modern video clips, ot that without him there will be no Barrack Obama sitting in WH - that is quite obvious to everybody who is older then teen age.

I would like to mention that he opened boarderlines in much more then geographical, social, political and musical point of view. He is famous even in here. And that is saying a lot.

Our little village knows MJ though nobody is his fan. I can even say that I have NO idea who is our prime minister and I will not be able to tell you any name of any minister even if it will cost me my life. No idea who is a champion in our football league, either.
As we use to say - bread would not be cheaper. Yet we knew MJ and we mourn him.
Actually, this is going to be a long day and I definitely need a big coffee.

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 10:44
Hmmm..
I wasnt bothered to read all the comments, just few of the latest ones, and I have to say I agree with Katt.

And Mermaid kinda summarized it all, what a perfect example post of your thoughts. Really freaky, really freaky..
How is it possible that Anette Olzon can mess up your mind like this? Its almost as if she is some kind of a demon in your head, and everything she says or does is the worst mistake anyone could do. Even wearing the crown of islanders princess means that shes princess Diana?? What the hell..Seriously guys..you should get something else to think about.

You guys are the vultures here, circling around, hoping to be able to rip off everything from her. eew..

AndIwonder wrote on 08.07.2009 at 11:06
still, it had some funny points yesterday - our national TV was "life! in LA and - naturally - US side did not give them names and explanations supposing that EVERY american is well know all around the world, too, not just MJ. And scenario was top secret.
So, commentators (both wearing black, black ties incl.) tried their best to guess who those completly unknown people are.
First speker was introduced as Diana Ross, even if that was a male person and as far as I know Diana Ross is a female kind of.
By time the speaker was back again, they realized that it is somebody else and was in fact only reading statement from Diana Ross.
Three times, I think they have being mentioning Janet Jackson, BROTHER of MJ - what he did, what he said, etc. So I do not know - I knew that he has a sister Janet (Scream) but you never know with americans - maybe he had a brother Janet as well.
I personally enjoyed the way how they introduced singers and speakers. Still no idea who was the girl singing two songs (Heal the world incl.) and honestly - almost nobody was identified. But there have been comments like: "This might me Magic Johnson, but if it is him, then he gained a LOT of weight." or "This could be Brooke Shields". Personally I thought that she looked like the mother of Brooke Shields, alas! time is not nice to us.
All ceremony was quite classy, thought it might be interesting to be told who are those unknown people on stage.
And I liked the way Madona remembered MJ on her concert, too, have you see that?

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 11:18
God in his mercy, you´ve managed to post over 300 comments within 9 days... let´s see how many comments you´ll post until the limit of 3 months ends xD

Daniela wrote on 08.07.2009 at 14:58
@Daniela

Ups... we did a mistake with our posting schedule..!

:-)

What about helping us in here?

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 15:04
@Mermaid
it will be a honour for me :D
AndIwonder wrote:
You guys are the vultures here, circling around, hoping to be able to rip off everything from her. eew..
Just look around and tell me, WHO is the one here who rip off every new issue, new shoes and clothes from favourite clothing companies etc? :-)

Daniela wrote on 08.07.2009 at 15:23
@Daniela

I do not know - who?
Actually, as far as vultures comes to dead or dying bodies, it was a strange comment from die-hard.

Was she/he telling by that that we are gathering around NW because they are dying? - surprised me, taht even die-had could see that.

It might be on subcounsious level, though.

What did you think by your comment?

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 15:58
I probably haven´t expressed my point in the best way... hmm.
The only vulture here is the lady who always tries to be at front page, no matter what issue with, and always tries to get as much attention as it´s possible. No dead people, but greed.

Daniela wrote on 08.07.2009 at 16:13
@Daniela

We did a record here, all times high in number of comments for one article, as Tero explained in webshop article.

:-)

So, whom did you mean?

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 16:18
@Daniela

well, the swedish princess? She certainly look like one to me (as I mentioned in today´s article).

I mean, to put myself into newspaper by blabbing about death of MJ is low, pointless and stupid enough.
i do not know the proper word for such a behaving, but "classy" is completely opossite to what I mean.

In our national news were many exclamation marks used, way too many if you ask me, too, but

NOBODY from so-called "celebrities" and even from known people commented like swedish princess did.

Only one singer said he was UFO, but she is cow anyway and as far as she moved to neighbouring country like 20 years ago, she was troubling them with her wise observations.

Even those "celebrities" who weekly show tits in order to get front page did NOT do that.

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 16:25
@Daniela

so, let us say, that people here behaved properly

After all, funeral is believed here NOT to be a proper place to be funny, cheaky or entertaining.
That cow I mentioned needed to comment on MJ because she has almost no sales already. She even showed tits two times, or so.
Actually, she met MJ in Neverland and as har as he did tell her like 4 sentences she innediately KNEW he is extraterestrial,
though for some reasons she had to wait till now to REVEAL it.

Really.

mermaid wrote on 08.07.2009 at 16:35
Phantom said: "since it's obvious from his lyrics he's more like the idiot of the century XD ."

That's Phantom I like. :-D

And don't forget that the lyrics can have more meanings. People who consider themselves to be important like to be ambiguous. ;-)

Katt said: "You are exactly the mockers she talks about on her blog. "

She talks about me in her blog? Wow, I feel so important now. B-)

mermaid said: "Ups... we did a mistake with our posting schedule..!"

Yeah it was simply too tight. Last week was pure madness and each and every member in the Nightwish demolition crew is basically madhouse-material at this point. :-p

And last but not the least...

@Katt, Andlwonder: We're not mocking Anette only but Tuomas also!!! Get that in your system ONCE AND FOR ALL! I'm so seriously pissed off by people constantly failing to notice that we're mocking Maestro too. >:(

TheSeer wrote on 08.07.2009 at 18:07
Mermaid wrote: I mean, to put myself into newspaper by blabbing about death of MJ is low, pointless and stupid enough.
Simply, it meets all the requirements to be mentioned at Anette´s blog... by princess herself.

Daniela wrote on 08.07.2009 at 19:38
Well,the fact is that you are all nasty hags with no life.

Btw, did Maestro *** some of you and never called back? Lol..
I bet all of you would dress as Minnie Mouses just to have a taste of him.

J wrote on 09.07.2009 at 03:05
@Katt, Andlwonder

exactly as Seer said - we, proud demolition, crew are mocking Maestro. Anette is just a bonus.
Though, it is an easier target, I must admit.

@Seer
you have made me my day - and this is going to be really a nasty day.
Did you realize, that Andlwonder saw as as vultures cickling around DYING NW? how sensitive of him...

@Daniela
That was my point.

mermaid wrote on 09.07.2009 at 09:48
mermaid said: "Did you realize, that Andlwonder saw as as vultures circling around DYING NW? how sensitive of him... "

I must correct you this time. He/she saw us as vultures circling around DYING Anette.

Andlwonder said: "You guys are the vultures here, circling around, hoping to be able to rip off everything from her. eew..."

I know that you also miss NW die-hards but the best we've had 'till now were Anette's fangirls and people who do not take sides (among which I recognize some names that used to be among die-hards not so long ago). So everything is dying... Nightwish, the fanbase and even yet-to-be-born Anette's solo career. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens to be a still-born.

TheSeer wrote on 09.07.2009 at 13:52
@Seer

did you mean fangirls, OR fungirls, OR both of them?

mermaid wrote on 09.07.2009 at 17:24
Seriously Musicians are not the only people who don't get paid for jobs. If they want a job where they get paid on time everytime. They'll be making a whole lot less than they are now. Not that I agree with people who don't pay their bills.

But seriously this is not a musician specific problem. It happens to small business owners and contractors and large companies around the world. It's happened to me with my business.

Only the government pays you as an employee no matter what. Since I've heard a great majority of jobs in Finland are government jobs, maybe that's why it is especially hard for them to accept that they got screwed.

~~ wrote on 10.07.2009 at 10:11
Seer said: "So everything is dying... "

So very true. Even MJ did.
Actually, Anette with her MJ article was succesful enough to make it to some american webs.

So, advertisement went as planned. Though, I still think that a) she did not write it
b) it was not written about him, originally
I can recognize a good marketing when I see some.

Andlwonder said: "How is it possible that Anette Olzon can mess up your mind like this? Its almost as if she is some kind of a demon in your head, and everything she says or does is the worst mistake anyone could do. Even wearing the crown of islanders princess means that shes princess Diana??"

Well, we did not need her to get messed - we have been messed already.
But that part of worst mistakes is not fair - we believe there is no reason to underestimate her.

As for princess Diana, she was a british princess, i.e. princess of Wales. So, person, who is wearing islanders crown is certainly not princess of Wales, that is clear.
But certainly she is a princess. That is what I pointed out they do have in common. Not all princesses of the world are from Wales - and we are aware of that fact.

But thanks for info - we did not know she is islandish princess.... :-)

mermaid wrote on 10.07.2009 at 13:35
J said: "Well,the fact is that you are all nasty hags with no life.

Btw, did Maestro *** some of you and never called back? Lol.. "

Finally! Someone has got it. It's all about Maestro in the first place. Give the man a prize!

mermaid said: "did you mean fangirls, OR fungirls, OR both of them?"

Haha, unfortunately only fangirls. :-( J was much more fun than all the fangirls together.

TheSeer wrote on 10.07.2009 at 14:14
"But no, the supposedly "sweet,humble,cute,down-to-earth" Anette chose to accuse Tarja's fans and indirectly,Tarja herself for her own breakdown and not being able to deal with what SHE chose to become."

And people like you are good example of how wrong she is...

MXD wrote on 11.07.2009 at 16:47
MXD

What "you"?
I am not Brazilian,i actually went to their show and cheered for them.I didn't shout or throw anything at her,i am just a person criticizing her on the net.

But even if i was,it's very LOW and CHEAP of her to accuse people (armed with the extremely hurtful weapon of pictures) for her own nervous problems(which she admitted that she has many years now).

Yes,us,a bunch of unknown people on the net are making her collapse.

NW fans would eat Tarja alive and rip her eyes out if she would say that people are responsoble for her problems.For example,she could say that Nw fans attacking her after the letter,caused her breakdowns or other problems.
And then she would be killed by them.

I can't believe NW fans have reached to the point to believe that Anette is a freaking innocent and humble angel and WE are responsible for her mistakes.

GROW UP.

Legeon wrote on 11.07.2009 at 20:56
TheSeer, mermaid, James, anyone...
Heard the news??Now,WE are responsible for Anette's breakdowns.WE are the ones to blame becuase she can't deal with what she chose to become.

Legeon wrote on 11.07.2009 at 20:59
Phantom: Do you really think I do not know who you are, just because you have a different name here? :P I thought you'd mentioned that you are a girl on the other forum before. I even know the country where you are from.

Epica "don't make anything new" and are therefore not better than NW? Way to go with bad logic. I've never said "more innovative", just better - note: according to the standards of NW fans - well, they have melodic-death-metal styled guitars, growls, black metal elements, oriental/folk elements, odd times, languages and serious lyrics that Maestro has never even dreamt of and their Latin is not worse than Maestro's attempt at Shakespeare English blatantly imitating Theatre of Tragedy.

By the way - the guy who founded and initially was the mastermind of After Forever is the same who founded and is the mastermind of Epica, remember? If Maestro can copy first Therion and Stratovarius, then Hans Zimmer etc., later himself all the time (going commercial or introducing some bagpipes or other random instruments doesn't mean innovative ...), it's good enough for Mark Jansen to do the same ... anyway, which "Nightwish-like" bands, nowadays, then, are really "innovative"? Diablo Swing Orchestra? But then, they don't do "anything really new" either, just mixing metal-style riffs and swing with parts of pre-existing film music, a few weird instruments, synthesizer sounds, samples, and opera vocals, with English, pseudo-Latin and Italian lyrics. Nothing new under the sun. Duh.

You are a fanboy because you can't see things objectively and can't accept criticism directed towards your beloved Maestro (which also requires you to have disdain and disinterest for any other similar band, even Edenbridge who developped their - actually much more sophisticated and progressive - style independently from NW, or bands who came before them but became never well known). You also accept everything he said about Tarja and Marcelo as truth.

But the actual fact is that other "NW-like" bands do not look to Nightwish for inspiration anymore, but entirely different bands. They admire Nightwish mainly for their commercial success, but not for artistic reasons. The creative impulse from Nightwish has already stopped long ago, unlike with Therion, who have kept re-inventing themselves and are still the key inspiration for symphonic metal bands. It's rare enough that a band remains artistically relevant after their first few albums but selling out doesn't help, it's just taking the fans for idiots by pretending that a commercial orientation is "a natural artistic development" and "innovative". Bull. It's just a symptom of stupidity and lacking integrity, if the band is not successful, or otherwise greed.

BTW: I really, really like Wishmaster. Some songs off CC and Once I still like a lot too, but still I'm not closing my eyes to the fact that no album after Oceanborn is really that great or artistically relevant. Even Wishmaster is more like schlager metal, really easy-listening. They're still basically cheesy power metal with pop rock influences that are greater than ever before. Just like Legeon said: some catchy riffs and melodies. Not a great achievement.

Maestro accepts more musical contributions from other band members now (but still prevents others from contributing lyrics), but strangely, becomes ever more in love with his own "songwriting genius" unlike the time when he really did everything himself, INCLUDING arrangements. That sticker advertising Williams would be a good idea because the fact is, most people STILL don't realise that Maestro doesn't do all the "epic orchestrations" himself. Not that Maestro really wants them to know. Williams' participation at the release party has escaped the average uninformed teenager who marvels at what is really his work, thinking the "cute keyboardist" did everything, just like they used to believe Tarja writes all the music for Nightwish and now believe she is back to her opera career.

TT: By the way, at the time of Angels Fall First not everything was done by Maestro, therefore music is credited to NIGHTWISH. One thing I've already mentioned is that Tarja ad-libbed the vocal melody to Etiäinen.

Almagest wrote on 14.07.2009 at 06:54
Katt: The claim about Tarja-fans/Anette-haters throwing anything at her was never substantiated. No-one who was really on the concert saw it.

She doesn't answer (for example, critical) questions that she doesn't like, she deletes them, from what I've heard. She doesn't even answer most questions.

She doesn't really have any problems to speak of. She comes across like a spoiled brat. The Paris Hilton of metal (if NW were still metal, which I'm not so sure about)!

We are fans of what NW used to be and aghast that nothing of it is left. We're just passing time waiting for the next good symphonic metal release.

We are the Hate (Demolition) Crew, we stand and we won't fall! We're all for none and none for all. Fuck you! (Of course, we're paid by Marcelo to harrass/hate on/demolish Anette, NW and their fans. :-) )

Newsflash: Legeon is not a Tarja fan. And we just love to be attention whores. Anette has shown us the way!

BTW, Katt: I don't believe you really like Tarja. You're just obsessed with us. :-)

Lizzie: I'm happy that Tarja has bad days like that so rarely, compared to NW. If that makes her a diva, when she is cool most days, great. :-)

Mermaid: Anette should have MANY MANY MORE webpages and blogs. That keeps her busy. That way, things will end actually up work for her and she will work for her money, instead of tormenting teenagers and metal fans at gigs and festivals.

Stratovarius are bores. They actually got sane. :/

If Maestro changes ALL the members it will be Tarja and her band. :-)

TheSeer: Getting shitfaced constantly, breaking all records of alcohol consumption, is going to make you age faster. Just remember the organizer from the US who said he'd never seen anyone drink as much as those crazy Finns. :-)

Tuomas said he's getting old and lazy. If he does it at this tempo NW will soon be history anyway. :-)

I've also read that being ambiguous is a sign of people who are passive-aggressive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive#Signs_of_passive-aggressive_behavior

And I have NOT watched the MJ memorial service. To busy with Hate (Demolition) Crew work. :-)

BTW, I've just found out that a friend of mine is in contact with Anette; he met her at ProgPower and thinks she is quite cute ("as long as he needn't watch her on stage singing NW songs" is implied from the context). I told him to let her know that she does an amazing job at providing entertainment for us, and that a single website and a single blog are not enough by far. :-)

Almagest wrote on 14.07.2009 at 07:23
To Almagest:

I think I should correct you here - Legeon IS Tarja´s fan, a swell as Seer. It is me, who is not. :-)

"All for none and none for all" is actually a good slogan, indeed..

mermaid wrote on 14.07.2009 at 10:26
@Almagest
"You are a fanboy because you can't see things objectively and can't accept criticism directed towards your beloved Maestro (which also requires you to have disdain and disinterest for any other similar band, even Edenbridge who developped their - actually much more sophisticated and progressive - style independently from NW, or bands who came before them but became never well known). You also accept everything he said about Tarja and Marcelo as truth. "

ahah you didn't really read my post to say I accepted everything he said about Marcelo and Tarja as truth. I'm the least person here who accepted Nw truth XD .

You seem like the typical angry Nw deluded fan who call everybody who disagree with you "fanboys" , no matter if they have their own opinions .
Yes, I do not like female fronted metal and I think Epica and Edenbridge are and never been no better than old Nightwish . I don't care about complexity, about latin lyrics etc. If I want to listen to a complex band I look up to other stuff. I'm glad if Nightwish don't take ispirations from female fronted metal bands.
This is my opinion, you can call me fanboy how much you want , it isn't going to change.
I'm afraid you are mistaking me from someone else.

Phantom wrote on 14.07.2009 at 10:47
@Almagest , if it makes you feel better XD , I'm the first one criticizing Nightwish for their laziness in playing and composing. It doesn't mean I have to like female fronted metal and agree with you. And I'm allowed to think that old Nightwish were actually one of the best bands of the scene (maybe you can ask Simone Simmons or Mark Jansen opinion about old Nightwish) You are not the ultimate dictionary of metal music, dude . So get off your horses lol .

Phantom wrote on 14.07.2009 at 10:56
Almagest, maybe I just hit a soft spot that's why you panicked saying me "You are a fanboy, you cannot accept criticism" ahaha
I guess this time you didn't find the typical dumb fanboy, that's why you have to use a more "defensive" approach . The same approach NW narrow minded fanboy use "You are a blind Tarjaholic, NW rules!" ahaah
That's the narrow minded twats behaviour .."NW fanboys vs Tarja-holics" .

Phantom wrote on 14.07.2009 at 11:03
Almagest said: "If Maestro can copy first Therion and Stratovarius, then Hans Zimmer etc., later himself "

I NEVER copy myself. :-p

mermaid said: "I think I should correct you here - Legeon IS Tarja´s fan, a swell as Seer. It is me, who is not. :-)"

Btw, which 2 songs of Tarja you like?

TheSeer wrote on 14.07.2009 at 13:20
to Seer:
I walk alone and Die alive.

I think that this sort of songs (e.i ballads) suits her voice best.
Enough makes me nervous and MWS - well, I have the CD (copied) but... it is a way too bombastic and with no actual concept.

Art to make an art - how is the french phrase for this? L´art pour l´art...?

mermaid wrote on 14.07.2009 at 13:32
@Almagest

You are right,like most of the time,just one thing:i am a Tarja fan.
To the NW fans here:
I also used to be a NW fan until they denigrated and destroyed a singer(when they had NO right to do that(but of course,evil Tarja worth it,huh?), came to my country,gave a hideous show,accused(their singer) the whole freaking country for that,forgot that they are a band and now they are celebrities,they don't make good music(no,catchy riffs with some orchestral parts-copies from Hans Zimmer doesn't make it a good symphonic metal band,actually not even symphonic) and they STILL bitch about Tarja and her fans,to justify their singer's neurological issues.

ps.I am not a Tarja widow,like many call us.It's quite stupid to even call us "widows",since Tarja isn't dead.NW,on the other hand,seems to be dying.

Legeon wrote on 14.07.2009 at 14:08
Legeon,

great comment.
Yes, it is so, indeed. We are old NW widows, being originally die-hards (Seer included).

That is what hardly somebody undestood.

It is as if somebody you loved died and you mourn him. You would not care whether his right hand is in better state then his left leg, would you?
(Or - for that matter - his left hand is more visited by worms then the head...)

mermaid wrote on 14.07.2009 at 15:01
Annette is such a diva now! Who could have thought she would turn to such state so soon! She'd bette sing better instead of acting like rock bitch wannabe (

Oasis wrote on 14.07.2009 at 16:23
@Phantom
I made my whole point in my post (and very valid one) and you chose only the last two lines. Cute. I'm afraid, judging by all the mess in the band lately Annette could have won that competition hands down.

Lisa wrote on 14.07.2009 at 23:35
@Oasis said : "Who could have thought she would turn to such state so soon!"

nobody, and that's why it's both so funny and sad !!!
she spreads fatuities on the net like a nuclear bomb spreads radioactivity..... I guess too many vege salads screws your
brain, or maybe her brand new SMEG color fridge has poisoned her food...

Anette is now an instable organism, some deadly hazmat for NW... I guess she will explode in thousands pieces like an inflatable doll at the end of GLS in september.... but I doubt they will play it.... let's see....

@ D.N.C.

you're discharged, Anette's got the job...
take a rest !!!

TT wrote on 15.07.2009 at 02:30
@ Almagest

It is true that Tuomas does take some melodies from Hans Zimmer. An example of it this is in "Beauty of the Beast". The vocal melody for the line: "My home is far but the rest it lies so close" is ripped directly from the opening melody of the theme for the movie Backdraft. Don't believe me? Look it up on Youtube and you will see. It's insane. I can't believe Tuomas did that. Oh well. :p

But I think that Stratovarius was a BIG part of NW's inspiration (at least the power metal influence). But I don't really think that it is really a "rip off" of them as you say. There are a number of bands that could be considered "rip offs" of Stratovarius, much like there are so many bands who have "ripped off" Nightwish! When it comes to power metal, there are certain bands I like and some I dislike, just like any genre. Nightwish happens to be good in this case.

See NW was a very good power metal band at one time, but now they are going in a direction that are leading them to be more commercial sounding (just like Evanescence and all the others) and it is angering the old fans! Those who are complaining about ppl critizing NW on these articles need to know what we are doing this! This band used to have so much praise, but now they are becoming a joke! And this is coming from a guy who has only listened to NW for a year.

I'll be honest with you, I have been a metalhead for years. I have listened to all types of metal, from Metallica to Slayer, Iron Maiden, Pantera, In Flames, and the list goes on. When I heard Nightwish's older albums, it was like a blessing to me to hear some original shit (Their older stuff is amazing Almagest! I don't care what you think! XD jk!) Well, it may not seem original to some people, but to me it was. It was so refreshing to hear such unique music when I discovered them, especially since I am so used to hearing mostly bad metal here in America (mostly nu-metal and metalcore crap! ;P). Sure bands like Symphony X are great, but really there ain't much here anymore. But it seems that there is so much symphonic metal out their now it actually is getting more annoying now the more I hear what is out there! (I feel like listening to Slayer now! XD XD !!!)

Despite Tuomas copying Zimmer or whatnot, the fact still remains that he is still a very good musician, no one can deny that! But what can't be good is his lack of awareness for what is really good for him. He feeds off of the media like a sponge and gets himself into trouble too much with what he and the rest of the band says. I am personally awaiting anxiously for the next NW album because I am curious to see what direction the band will go into! Only time will anxiously tell!

James wrote on 15.07.2009 at 08:21
@James, yeah I agree with you.
I'm not sure what to think about the next album, I have no high expectations

@Lisa, I can't even remember what we were talking about lol

Phantom wrote on 15.07.2009 at 10:59
@ James
I do not have any huge expectations cause I'm pretty sure that NW will continue the DPP path music-wise and will make more simplified commercial pop-metalpop-rock album to get more money. Since NW lately is more concearned about sales and publicity, not about artistic side of music. Besides their current vocalist can't do anything special vocal-wise but to fit mainstream commercial music genre.

Eternalwander wrote on 15.07.2009 at 14:55
@Eternalwander

"Besides their current vocalist can't do anything special vocal-wise but to fit mainstream commercial music genre."

And why do you think she was chosen? :D

Legeon wrote on 15.07.2009 at 16:39
@ Eternalwander

I have a feeling that they will continue to slide too. I am only hoping for them to get better, but it probably won't happen...

James wrote on 15.07.2009 at 16:46
Sorry, Legeon, to contradict you on this one -

but if I would want to switch to pop, I would choose young, good looking girl.

With middle aged woman passing through middle age crisis, clearly having neurological problems (not to mention she is unable to accept her biological age and act accordingly)

you can run maybe some protest songs.

Let us put it straight - she is no Madonna.
Unfortunately she is not Britney Spears, either.

mermaid wrote on 15.07.2009 at 17:12
@mermaid

When she started she looked really good,and of course she hadn't shown any sign of issues,she kept them for herself(or they were revealed even for her,after having faced difficulties touring).

I also don't believe she went to their audition dresses like an emo,like the way she did during her first NW shows.

Legeon wrote on 15.07.2009 at 20:20
I just have a few things to say. The guy from Brazil who said nobody did anything to Anette in Brazil, I suggest you search Youtube. There are videos of it. Myself, I find the whole Tarja vs Anette ridiculous. Admittedly, I didn't discover NW until 2 years ago when a friend introduced me to their music. I happen to like both eras. This whole fight about two different singers reminds me of the Metallica/Megadeth thing. And just like that, it is completely foolish. Bands/ people do what they'll do....get over it. If you don't like current NW, find something else to listen too. Listen to older NW albums with fond memories...

Its a band for f+++'s sake, not your real life.

DStreete wrote on 22.07.2009 at 03:24
DStreete
They already faked the video proofs to support that theory? Sweeet. Oh yes, of course, person who attended that concert knows less when youtube ))))

ruth wrote on 22.07.2009 at 10:11
@DStreete

Do you have link to that video, because in all the videos I have seen of the incident, nothing bad was heard to be said to Anette, they were screaming for Anette, nothing was thrown on the stage, so please grace us with the video you saw

Phoenix wrote on 22.07.2009 at 19:30
Type "Anette walks off stage in Brazil" I'm using my phone to type don't get an internet signal on laptop in the middle of nowhere. The video I saw was a cellphone vid from near the front row...and the guys(as in yes they were men) were behaving.....like animals, for lack of a better term.

Its funny though, I've read through these comments(try that on a cellphone...), and everyone is keyed up on how Anette is a diva for her business stuff. That's just smart business. The first people who'll f you in a band are your bandmates, ask Tarja, Dave Mustaine etc, etc. Wouldn't you want some business protection, especially when you look at NW's history with former bandmates?

The main point of my previous post was that this whole thing is foolish. NW fired Tarja 4 years ago. It's just a band. If you base your life on what a band does, you need serious help.

Oh, mumus(sp?) Are dresses usually seen on fat women in American trailer parks.

That's all I really got to say, I gotta get back to my job driving this semi thru the backwoods of the US, I hope they haven't seen Deliverance....later

DStreete wrote on 23.07.2009 at 01:45
@Dstreete

Sorry, but I've seen the video and heard it and that is just propaganda bs, no one is being mean to Anette, they are saying you are the best Anette, they are cheering her on, this is just more bs by Tuomas, because the singer he picked couldn't cut it, and also she was fighting with the band and NW management sucks, she hired her own management and or assistant shortly after this show

The audience is then screaming encouragement for Anette, most of them have an accent because they are from Brazil, but nothing obscene or rude is seen on the video, look and listen more carefully and stop being a Tuomas/Anette fangirl or fanboy

Just because Tuomas wants to remain a child doesn't mean his fans have to do the same

Phoenix wrote on 23.07.2009 at 04:56
If you want to see a disgraceful act by a "fan" and "bandmembers" here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bj4h1807kY

Tarja was attacked and molested in Mexico by a fan as her band stood around and did nothing, Marcelo grabbed the thug and threw him off the stage

Tarja came back with tears in her eyes and finished the show

Later bandmembers didn't have the time or were too drunk to comfort her, leaving her with Marcelo, a stranger at the time, to take care of her

This was probably the beginning of the end of any real friendship she had with the band, and especially the "valiant" Tuomas

Phoenix wrote on 23.07.2009 at 05:08
@Phoenix , that's the "Marcelo's version " of the incident. He said that Sami told him to stay with Tarja. You don't know what happened if they tried/not tried to confort her or were too drunk or not.

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 11:15
Phantom

But they didn't help her when she was attacked. I mean they were on stage, but didn't do anything, it was another person who grabbed that maniac. That's a fact.

ruth wrote on 23.07.2009 at 16:56
@Ruth , I think they didn't even realize what was going on while playing. In the video you see the crazy fan jumping on Tarja and all these lights, and then 5 seconds later Marcelo was grabbing him and kicking him off. Marcelo was quicker.
Why the hell they shouldn't have helped her? Because they are mean bad boys? C'mon .

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 18:34
@Phantom

I condemn them more for what happened after the attack, as they kept playing and Tuomas kept headbanging and having a good ole party after his singer was attacked

As for Marcelo's point of view, well Tuomas never told his, so I'm guessing it didn't show him in a good light, because he surely is not shy with telling personal details of his life in his documentaries

Phoenix wrote on 23.07.2009 at 20:08
@Phoenix , and so? What's so wrong that they kept playing? There is something called "security" for these things . They didn't realize why Tarja had the accident. They kept playing even when Anette went out the stage in Brazil.
Do you think they would have solved something if they quit the song right in that moment? They finished the song and went backstage.

what the hell Tuomas should have said other than telling he was sorry they didn't see the guy in time. It has something to do with being shy and talking about personal life? No .
Do you think that a couple of documentaries in which he tells about what inspires him writing music equals to telling his personal life? Which personal details you heard?

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 20:35
@Phantom

Excuses, Excuses, for your Boy Tuomas, did he need to head bang and cheer on the crowd, with fist in the air, please, he does not act like even a semi-friend, maybe he just doesn't know the reactions most human beings should have, oh ya, maybe it's because he's so naive and all

Of course, since he later backstabbed his so-called friend a few years later, we already know what kind of "friend" he is

How can you compare being attacked, to someone getting their feelings hurt on stage and walking off with crocodile tears? that can't be compared in my book

phoenix wrote on 23.07.2009 at 21:29
Phantom

So they are completely blameless, cause they were so slow and couldn't react to their bandmate being attack? And didn't spend some time after gig to give comfort to their singer who was attacked? You find such behaviour nice or right?

The fact that they went on playing in both Tarja and Anette cases, only proves that they are indifferent to the vocalists's feelings.

ruth wrote on 23.07.2009 at 22:12
Ruth , I would have done the same . I would have finished to play and then checked why the singer left the stage. I don't see what's the big deal about that. Maybe I'm a bastard too.
As for what happened after, if they did or not confort her..that's an other matter. Everybody has different reactions to these things and not everybody is good at conforting someone.

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 22:19
Phantom
Well, if you totally think that such behaviour is ok when you are not gentleman at heart, sorry. Gentleman cares when their female collegues are attacked or depressed.

Sure different reactions, differente people that's why they should be excused for not comforting someone who are they working with,lol. That's a bs for weak people with no feelings. You need not to be the best comforter in the world, but you must do efforts to show this person that you CARE if you respect this person at least. If you do not want to show that of course, do not make efforts but do not pretend to be a good person yourself.

ruth wrote on 23.07.2009 at 22:30
Ruth , no not everybody is gentlemen , I'm glad you understand it. The poor misunderstood female colleagues! They are always the victims of these rude rednecks lol .

I was talking about what happened on stage, I think the fact they kept on playing for those 5 minutes it's not a big deal especially because, in both cases, they didn't really understood soon what happened to the singers.
I don't justify them for not conforting her backstage, I only told you people may have several reactions.Actually we don't know too much about what happened backstage, do we?

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 22:45
Funny how Marcelo said that Tuomas was madly in love with Tarja but at the same time he wasn't able to confort her when she was attacked. That's prove Marcelo is just talking bullshits.

... wrote on 23.07.2009 at 22:55
It proves nothing, as Tuomas himself admits that he's only "romantic on the paper"

He even admits in EOI, that he can only tell his parents how he feels thru a song

He is basically a coward when it comes to showing how he really feels

And c'mon, most of us know by now that, Ever Dream is about Tarja, and GLS might as well be called Ode to Tarja

"You were the one to cut me so I'll bleed forever"

As far as I know he was still bleeding well writing DPP

Phoenix wrote on 23.07.2009 at 23:02
Yes, not everybody is, and it's about them. You sarcasm about poor female collegues is just low. Perhaps it was tarja's fault she got attacked and the band was too slow to realize that and to give her any help with maniac. Ok I understood that you are a great fan of tuomas so maybe that's why you are like this on that matter, you argue when somebody says tuomas is not perfect,lol :)

As far as I know from NW book they didn't give her much comfort.

Of course marcelo is telling bullshits, no matter that tuomas has problems with expressing his feelings and being a noble person in his actions, and the fact he also tells lies. marcelo is always to blamed for tuomas's failures. a typical saying of nw mindless fan )))

ruth wrote on 23.07.2009 at 23:54
Phoenix, there is no dobt he's a coward

Phantom wrote on 23.07.2009 at 23:58
I just called Tuomas a coward , how does it make me a fanboy? lol

I just wanted to point out that perhaps on stage , in that moment, they didn't see at the first glance that a maniac was attacking her. Perhaps they thought he was some crazy idiots who climbed the stage. Marcelo was there in something like 5 seconds if you watch the video.

And I didn't say Marcelo lied.

Phantom wrote on 24.07.2009 at 00:17
Phantom

When I was writing my post, MFF staff didn't post your post in the comments section yet, so I didn't see you called him coward :)
Yeah, I saw the video, good for tarja he managed to react at this attack so fast. anyway I think it took guts from her to be able to return to the stage and finish the gig after that. that is what called being professional.

And I wasn't answering to you about marcelo lying, I was answering to that ... person.

p.s. my phrase about " it was tarja's fault she got attacked " was meant to be with question mark, it is sarcasm ,so just tarja fans do not think I was actually stating it was her fault :).

ruth wrote on 24.07.2009 at 08:32
@Ruth and Phoenix:

It is quite pointless to argue with a teenage girl who has walls full of Maestro´s posters and dreams about his everlasting love...

Off course nothing he would ever do will be wrong.

And as for everlasting love: you know it is much more easy to write a poem then to clean the windows, do the shopping and take care for kids.

Doing daily choirs and help your wife/girlfriend with shit, which comes so often.

Romantics is easy. Marriage is difficult.

My point is that boy might look fascinating on a poster and I still will not entrust him even with my little dog.

Therefore I am not so surprised that Tarja did not chose a poster boy for her husband. She certainly knew why she did that, on account of knowing him for SO MANY YEARS.

mermaid wrote on 24.07.2009 at 10:48
Mermaid , how many times I have to tell you that I'm not a teenager and I'm not a GIRL ?!

Can you please shut your pathethic deluded fangirl mouth? You may notice that not everybody who disagree with your bullshits must be labelled as teenager.

Phantom wrote on 24.07.2009 at 12:01
Legeon said: "When she started she looked really good,and of course she hadn't shown any sign of issues,she kept them for herself(or they were revealed even for her,after having faced difficulties touring). "

then it would not be Anette as we know her, love her and adore her...

mermaid wrote on 24.07.2009 at 12:44
DStreete,

Tarja had to manage many screaming fans - even those who used to be quite rude to her.

In their beginning NW was a thing to laugh on, because female fronted metal bands did not exist and metal as such was a male world.

If you will do though theis DVD you will see signs saying "show your tits" - to give you just one example.

Metal world is not an opera world. I am quite sure that Tarja had many reasons to cry or to complain about that, too.

But she was adult (well, not that old as Anette, student only), professionalist and managed.

If Anette expect fans to behave she would better go to sing in opera.

i am still surprised like peole here say - OK, BUT Anette is so unexperienced and Tarja had so many years of experiences...

as if Tarja´s experiences had been gained by walking in rose garden. Let me remind you - Tarja lerned the hard way, being maybe the only woman in metal world, like 20 years old and being in completely unknown band.

In what way is this worse for Anette? Will you, please, explain me?

mermaid wrote on 24.07.2009 at 14:33
@mermaid

"In what way is this worse for Anette? Will you, please, explain me?"

Because evil Tarja who hurt Tuomas deserved it :P
That's what most NW fans think.
But Olzon should have thought about this,what she would have to deal with.She's a freaking adult.

Legeon wrote on 24.07.2009 at 14:50
Legeon,

she is almost in grandmothers´ age.

I would really suggest you Terry Pratchett - it is fantasy, but he is just great in characters.

In one book it says: Not all old women are necessarily wise. The fact that woman has no teeth does not need to mean she is wise, but it could be that she was stupid long enough.."

:-)

Some things can not be fixed by getting aged.

mermaid wrote on 24.07.2009 at 15:50
@mermaid

You're right,i just thought that being a 38-year-old mother teaches you a lot.
But of course Olzon not only learned nothing,she seems to even willingly ignore the term "family responsibilities",since she abandoned her family to "become famous",to "fullfil her dream".

Legeon wrote on 24.07.2009 at 17:43
Phantom said: "@Phoenix , and so? What's so wrong that they kept playing? There is something called "security" for these things . They didn't realize why Tarja had the accident. They kept playing even when Anette went out the stage in Brazil.
Do you think they would have solved something if they quit the song right in that moment? They finished the song and went backstage."

They didn't "realize" Tarja was attacked!? Sami stepped over her literally while she was on the floor, still playing the bass, while Tuomas was only 1 meter away? Even you don't believe in what you said so you continue with additional "arguments" - "What's so wrong they kept playing? They did so when Anette left the stage". How can you compare those 2 things? Tarja was ATTACKED on the stage! Do you know what does that mean? Security? For your "friend"? Please... Would have they solved anything if they helped her? Nothing, except they would have helped a friend and saved her, and Tuomas could have won her heart and thus spare everybody (himself in the FIRST place) of 10 years long lovelorn agony to come. But you're right Phantom, besides that, NOTHING more.

... said: "Funny how Marcelo said that Tuomas was madly in love with Tarja but at the same time he wasn't able to confort her when she was attacked. That's prove Marcelo is just talking bullshits."

The only one talking bullshit here is you. And you even don't have a name to stand for your bullshit. Tuomas was in love with Tarja from 2001. The attack happened in 2000. I think he was in love with her from the moment she fell in love to Marcelo. Not before.

TheSeer (narrow-minded one) wrote on 25.07.2009 at 21:02
@TheSeer , "They didn't "realize" Tarja was attacked!? Sami stepped over her literally while she was on the floor, still playing the bass, while Tuomas was only 1 meter away? Even you don't believe in what you said so you continue with additional "arguments"

When Sami walked around there was already Marcelo and an other security guy helping Tarja, watch the video again please.

Ok, so tell me why they would have let Tarja alone fighting with this attacker ON PURPOSE? Tell me a good reason for that. They are all a bunch of mean bastards?

"uomas was in love with Tarja from 2001. The attack happened in 2000. I think he was in love with her from the moment she fell in love to Marcelo."
Lol and how can you know when he exactly fell in love with her?
So do you think that he would have won her heart just being her knight in the shining armour . How romantic :P . I doubt it would have been enough .

Phantom wrote on 26.07.2009 at 01:16
@TheSeer
"Tuomas was in love with Tarja from 2001. The attack happened in 2000. I think he was in love with her from the moment she fell in love to Marcelo. Not before."

why do you think so?

Phantom wrote on 26.07.2009 at 01:23
Phantom said: "Ok, so tell me why they would have let Tarja alone fighting with this attacker ON PURPOSE? Tell me a good reason for that."

Because they didn't give a SH*T about Tarja. Tuomas included. Remember that she wanted to leave Nightwish already in 2000 because of that - they didn't give a sh*t about her. And then Marcelo persuaded her to stay longer.

Obviously Tuomas was not in love with her in 2000. Else he would not let her spend so much time alone during the tour. If you're in love with somebody you prey on every moment that person is alone to use it and be with her/him. Do you know how it feels to be in love Phantom at all? :-p

TheSeer (narrow-minded one) wrote on 26.07.2009 at 14:28
@TheSeer
"Because they didn't give a SH*T about Tarja. Tuomas included. Remember that she wanted to leave Nightwish already in 2000 because of that - they didn't give a sh*t about her. And then Marcelo persuaded her to stay longer.

Obviously Tuomas was not in love with her in 2000. Else he would not let her spend so much time alone during the tour. If you're in love with somebody you prey on every moment that person is alone to use it and be with her/him. Do you know how it feels to be in love Phantom at all? :-p"

So, you are helping people only if you give a shit about them? If you see someone who has been aggressed in the street, a woman for example, you don't help her because you don't give a shit? For me they simply didn't see the aggressor in time, and when they did they already saw the security taking "care" of him and didn't realize what he did to Tarja until they went backstage.
The fact that, according to Marcelo, they didn't confort her is an other matter. Perhaps they are like that, stupid finnish rednecks.
I don't think Tuomas didn't care, it's possible that Tarja rejected him in the beginning and he didn't even try that much knowing she was already engaged with an other guy even before Marcelo. He doesn't seem a person who shows and expresses his feelings easily. Or like you said, he fell in love with her later. If he really was in love with her.

Phantom wrote on 26.07.2009 at 23:31
Seer said:
"Would have they solved anything if they helped her? Nothing, except they would have helped a friend and saved her, and Tuomas could have won her heart and thus spare everybody (himself in the FIRST place) of 10 years long lovelorn agony to come."

Seer, this was a blasphemy. If Maestro would not 10 years in long lovelorn agony.... what will be of him? What will be of us? What we all will do with our lives? There will be no NIghtwish...no demolition band, finnish press will have nothing to do - and you know where that could lead? High unemployement, low wages... NO FUN.

mermaid wrote on 27.07.2009 at 17:42
WTF !? you're camping and feasting on that old post, that's mean ! I thought you were all gone on holidays :/

is it about to appear in the Guinness book now ?
--

About the Guadalajara attack, here's a nice gesture of Emppu (0:30), I guess it was just after the attack...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi7V1UemNyw&hl=fr

About the attack itself, well, frankly it's hard to see what exactly happened, I guess that strobe light added chaos and truely prevented the band to understand the gravity of the attack that was quite sudden. Anyway it seems Tarja had been rescued quickly by several persons, among them Marcelo... but yes, the band kept playing, but in those circumstances it means nothing to me, and sometimes people do things they even regret afterwards, so... only Tarja know the truth about that story, but I have no doubt the other guys (Tuomas, Jukka, Sami) didn't really give a shit to Tarja at the time, and maybe even before, if you replace that incident in this context, the way the guys reacted is quite logical and doesn't make them fucking monsters or whatever.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1173654294876781230&ei=aQZuStTtGs6z-AaQmtywAw&q=nightwish+guadalaraja+2000&hl=fr

TT wrote on 27.07.2009 at 23:23
Actually, I think Emppu and Tarja should have joined forces to create a band together... if Nw splits up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Emppu joining Tarja's project......

TT wrote on 27.07.2009 at 23:42
TT , so again...If you don't give a shit about someone you help her/him anyway and you don't let her being attacked. That's why I think they didn't realize what happened in the moment Tarja was attacked. And actually AFTER that episode Tarja said that they started to pay more attention to her and to the fact there was a woman in the band, and to things like security and so on.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 00:19
TT , "but I have no doubt the other guys (Tuomas, Jukka, Sami) didn't really give a shit to Tarja at the time"

How do you know this? Based on the words Marcelo said? Marcelo just told that when he came back to the backstage Sami said to him to stay with Tarja, you don't know what the other guys told her before and you don't know why Sami said that.
Also you don't know them in person, and we don't know how they react.

Ok if Tuomas didn't give a shit about her as it seems, then Marcelo told a huge lie or Tuomas has a "cold" character.

I'm not saying they are good. I'm just trying to say that according to your opinions there is a big contraddiction with what Marcelo said.
Do you think Tuomas started to show Tarja he cared about her after? I have doubts about that.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 00:34
"And actually AFTER that episode Tarja said that they started to pay more attention to her and to the fact there was a woman in the band, and to things like security and so on. "

Yes, but neither in NW book nor in any of band member's interviews (male members) after this attack guys said about them showing some real comfort to their fellow collegue straight after the incident. It doesn't seem that they showed her much comfort as I said. And it is a shame to them.
And BTW, who said Tumoas had some romantic feelings for Tarja in 2000? Quite possible she was only his bandmate, someone he knew and liked as friend, but I doubt there was love thing at that time, besides Tuomas is very childish person, and when he was younger, well he was even more childish so that's why he didn't pay much attention to the needs of his female bandmate. I know they knew each other from school, but it doesn't mean he loved her from school. Even now he is older, and it doesn't seem he pays a lot of attention to their current vocalist either.

ruth wrote on 28.07.2009 at 00:48
@Phantom

once again, I think we can't judge the guys on that incident, I agree with you. What Marcelo said about it is irrelevant to me.

About not giving a shit about Tarja, with Marcelo, the official bio gives some elements about it, but, to me this is not because they are ugly persons, they have simply different personalities that couldn't fit together, especially on tours. Tarja felt obvioulsy excluded for being the only sober and righteous one (woman also) we all kown, instead of the others.

About Tuomas, as we know, he lived a truly platonic love with Tarja. He cared about her, but I guess with time his jealousy became bitterness, which led him to badly hurt her with this open letter and what followed.....
I still wonder if they had a short love story at the very beginning (1996), or only a true platonic thing.

TT wrote on 28.07.2009 at 01:25
Ruth :
"And BTW, who said Tumoas had some romantic feelings for Tarja in 2000? Quite possible she was only his bandmate, someone he knew and liked as friend, but I doubt there was love thing at that time, besides Tuomas is very childish person, and when he was younger, well he was even more childish so that's why he didn't pay much attention to the needs of his female bandmate."

No but some songs like Gethsemane or Beauty And The Beast, may hint to the fact that he was already in love with her. It' s just a speculation because I don't know, but to me it seems that all those songs are linked to each other.
And, as I said, I doubt he showed her that he cared for her later.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 01:42
I think that Tuomas could cope with this unrequited love with Tarja, as long as she was staying in the bosom of NW... Tuomas's world, a place where he could have a control over her, simply mix with her and possibly feed his platonic feelings and inspiration. I guess the day he learned about Tarja's project to leave and make a solo career, his sufferings and disillusions led him to start feeding bad feelings about Tarja, and obviously Marcelo, the source of all his sufferings... btw, The Phantom did the same with Christine.

Tuomas wrote this open letter obviously to deeply hurt Tarja and Marcelo. It was just a revenge disguised with slanders but that had, nonetheless, true and understandable motives behind. It was indeed, a really bad revenge, not for being a revenge in itself, but because Tuomas used and fooled other people (some media / a part of Nw's audience) to achieve his goal, making them his partners in crime. He has truly betrayed his listeners. Since 2005, he's drawing bad thoughts and feelings from some of these people, I guess this is the shortest way to gain some kind of damnation, for he has committed, not a crime, but a sin, at least to my eyes.

TT wrote on 28.07.2009 at 07:26
TT,

why it had to be a romantic love? Jealousy comes in different shapes and could be caused by different reasons.
Tuomas attended Tarja´s wedding, together with all other members and there was no sign of Tarja´s dating Marcelo and their marriage causing problems.
Although it did last for few years.

Problems came when Tarja was about to start solo carrier. So, as I see it Tuomas never had problems with marriage - but he did have a lot of problems dealing with Tarja´departure of the band.

he for sure quessed that this will be a huge blow to HIS Nightwish. As time proved he was right about that. Tarja´s departure damaged his creation, scenery of his soul.

She is quite lucky they did humiliate her only verbally and psychologically - attempt to do it on artistical level was obvious one, too - with refferences they gave her no normal band would ever hire her and any label would think about her work attitude, too.

Still, this was about the very nasty way how to FIRE somebody. If it would be about romance - Maestro will be VERY delayed.

I am not saying he did not have some romantic feelings. It just looks to me that while Tarja was asset of the band, he could manage.

I also believ that if she would not head for solo carrier she will stay in the band untill now - feelings or not. Married or not.

mermaid wrote on 28.07.2009 at 10:43
"Tuomas attended Tarja´s wedding, together with all other members and there was no sign of Tarja´s dating Marcelo and their marriage causing problems. . "

Lol and so? I mean, he shouldn't have attended her wedding ?

Why you insist on inventing things Mermaid?
Nightwish problems with Tarja didn't start with her solo career, because each member in Nightwish has a solo career.
Nightwish problems started when Marcelo began interfeering with booking shows and asking to cancel this and that.
Tarja wanted to leave at a point, after Century Child, but she changed idea.
Of course the reason wasn't just romantic feelings, no-one is so naive to believe that only jealousy made him fire Tarja. But, perhaps, all this anger and frustration derived also from jealousy, in Tuomas' case.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 13:46
@Phantom

Actually Tarja made the announcement that she would leave to the band members in 2001.

They knew it ever since,before Century Child.

Legeon wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:00
"I still wonder if they had a short love story at the very beginning (1996), or only a true platonic thing."

TT, no I really doubt it. Tarja was with an other guy before Marcelo. And I doubt she could have liked Tuomas in that way.
In the boo, Tarja said that they became "close friends" after a while , but I doubt there was something between them.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:03
@Legeon , no ..in 2001/2002 she said she would have left the band AFTER Century Child. She changed idea after the tour. I guess she saw things started to get better, both in terms of organization (and inside the band) both in terms of money..

Then things went bad at the end of 2004 and she made the decision of leaving the band after the next album (which would have been DPP basically)

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:06
@Phantom

Tarja initially wanted to leave on 2000,and then Marcelo convinced her to stay.The next year,she said that she would leave after 2 or 3 albums.

Legeon wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:09
@Legeon
"Tarja initially wanted to leave on 2000,and then Marcelo convinced her to stay.The next year,she said that she would leave after 2 or 3 albums."

Both in Nw biography and in Marcelo answers it's written how I said , how come you come up and say these things.

Tuomas split the band in 2000 and then Tarja and Marcelo went to him to talk about things to change.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:19
Guys,

even if it was the holy spirit who persuaded her to stay - it does not matter.

Problems came when she wanted to leave. That is a simple FACT.

And by the way - nobody has a solo carrier in band - they are just doing things to kill time.

Even Tarja did not have any solo carrier - untill she left NW.

Still, the humiliating way she was fired clearly shows what was THE reason for jealousy - not her beauty or Maestro´s feelings to her

but the fact that the hen producing golden eggs was declaring to leave out of the Maestro´s grasp.

She was quite lucky she did it in this century - should we have another century she could get burned as well.

mermaid wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:23
Beauty and the Beast song is only the retelling of the classical story and more important, of the famous Disney animation film, with exact lines from it. Tuomas is a fan of Disney and liked this cartoon also, so he just made a song fully based on it, I do not think that behind it is a real person for whom he had any feelings.

I believe that it was in In the End of Innocence DVD where Tuomas says that he misses a certain person and that you can read it all in the lyrics of Gethsemane. I doubt that it was Tarja.

"Nightwish problems started when Marcelo began interfeering with booking shows and asking to cancel this and that. "

NW had problems already in 2000-2001 when Tuomas decided to quit and the whole deal ended in keeping the band but in firing Sami who had problems in the band. It was a first call and a big one, and as far as I remember Marcelo wasn't Tarja manager at that time, so hardly you can blame that on him. BTW, now there is no Marcelo near the band and they still have real serious problems in the band and with tour routine. So...

ruth wrote on 28.07.2009 at 14:46
Phantom said:
"Tuomas split the band in 2000 and then Tarja and Marcelo went to him to talk about things to change."

If I remember right - Marcelo started to date Tarja in 2000? Or 2001? And He became her manager in 2001? Or 2002?
And they got married in - what - 2003?

So, either Phantom means that :

a) there was no NW between 2000 and 2003, or
b) there was something in-between Marcelo and Maestro since the first moment (that give completely new point of view to jealousy against Tarja displayed later

c) or both

I certainly can not see any other way to understand this - Maestro would not even listen to completely unknown person with regards to such an important decision, would he?

Seer, where are you, when needed?

mermaid wrote on 28.07.2009 at 15:58
i just realised this one comment is not here, so adding it again:

Phantom said:
""Tuomas attended Tarja´s wedding, together with all other members and there was no sign of Tarja´s dating Marcelo and their marriage causing problems. . "
Lol and so? I mean, he shouldn't have attended her wedding ?
Why you insist on inventing things Mermaid?"
_______________________________

Ok, let us just see, what I invent here.
I said 2 things:
A) band (Maestro incl.) attended Tarja´s wedding.
If I was inventing this then it is not entirely my fault - it was in that book. But Phantom might have better information, being there.

OR/AND

B) there was not sign of problem between Marcelo and Maestro. Well, I guessed here - book not said whether there were problems, but it did not say otherwise. Nobody did say otherwise yet.

So, maybe there was a huge fight between Maestro and Marcelo, or between band and Marcelo.

Maybe even police had to be called.

Still, whatever I invented - one thing is clear. Phantom was on that wedding in question and decided to reveal something none of people in question did not reveal yet.

Seer, such an interesting reveals - and no sight of you!!

mermaid wrote on 28.07.2009 at 17:53
guys,

if my previous comment will not disapear again,

THIS IS COMMENT NO. 400 to this article,

what is not just "all times high"

but also a challenge for the generations to come!

I would like to use this opportunity to thank you all for joining us in this fantastic piece of communication.

Mainly I would like to express our gratitude to Tero Tolkki (MFF staff) who had to read all 4OO comments, whatever he thought about that.

Then, I would like to express my personal thanks to people who not just shared my (and their as well) thoughts, feelings and time,

But also did teach me something and therefore

SPECIAL THANKS TO:

Legeon, TheSeer, (our demolition band)
TT, Daniela, Thunder, James and many others

without whom this will not be possible.

Great, great work, anyone!

mermaid wrote on 28.07.2009 at 18:08
"And by the way - nobody has a solo carrier in band - they are just doing things to kill time.

Even Tarja did not have any solo carrier - untill she left NW.

Still, the humiliating way she was fired clearly shows what was THE reason for jealousy - not her beauty or Maestro´s feelings to her "

You answered yourself. Tarja's solo career WAS NOT a problem because she did her stuff outside Nightwish. She wanted to leave mainly because she didn't like the lack of comunication inside the band and of course also for concentrating on her solo stuff.

The problem in 2004 (@Ruth, I know there were problems before but I'm talking about 2004) started because the 2 managements were fighting over gigs and money issues. Because Marcelo wanted more money from the promoters and they started to cancel gigs. Tuomas got pissed off when she told him that she could leave the band anyday .
It's fucking clear from the etter, the book and everything..how many times I have to repeat it?

If the only problem was that Tarja wanted to leave the band for her solo career they would have kept her for an other album and then fired her. If they were afraid that loosing her would have been such a loss. Marcelo was THE problem, it's FUCKING CLEAR!

"If I remember right - Marcelo started to date Tarja in 2000? Or 2001? And He became her manager in 2001? Or 2002?
And they got married in - what - 2003?

So, either Phantom means that :
a) there was no NW between 2000 and 2003, or
b) there was something in-between Marcelo and Maestro since the first moment (that give completely new point of view to jealousy against Tarja displayed later"

You must be seriously dumb, really.
Check yourself Marcelo answers . Tuomas split the band in 2000 or 2001 I don't know when exactly, after they released Over The Hills EP and after they finished the tour (so probably in 2001) . Tarja didn't know from him that he decided to split the band. Later Tuomas changed idea and Tarja (with Marcelo) went to talk to him to define some things about the tour (shortly after Tuomas decided he would have go on with NW) and she said to him that Marcelo would have helped him on tour and would have been her manager. Marcelo was her manager BEFORE marrying Tarja when they were dating.
If you don't believe me check the book or marcelo's answers.

I said that you invent things because you insisted that Tarja's solo career was the problem when it's fucking clear that Marcelo was the problem . I know about the wedding thing

"Beauty and the Beast song is only the retelling of the classical story and more important, of the famous Disney animation film, with exact lines from it. Tuomas is a fan of Disney and liked this cartoon also, so he just made a song fully based on it, I do not think that behind it is a real person for whom he had any feelings.

I believe that it was in In the End of Innocence DVD where Tuomas says that he misses a certain person and that you can read it all in the lyrics of Gethsemane. I doubt that it was Tarja."

No Ruth, Getshemane and Beauty and The Beast are both personal songs, Tuomas said it many times in interviews. At least I have read it in old interviews. And NW BATB has a different story than the original one.
That part in EOI is referred to EverDream , actually in the book he clarifies that ED is a confession of feelings for a certain person.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 18:54
Phantom said: "So, you are helping people only if you give a shit about them? If you see someone who has been aggressed in the street, a woman for example, you don't help her because you don't give a shit? "

As a matter of fact Phantom, the answer is affirmative. People often get attacked on the streets, with a lot of bystanders around (happened to my brother once), and usually NOBODY helps them. People don't give a sh*t about others being attacked.

"For me they simply didn't see the aggressor in time"

So when Sami stepped over Tarja and the aggressor he did that by pure fluke, because he didn't even notice they were on the floor. I can only thank God he did NOT by accident stand on Tarja's face with his heavy shoes.

TT said: "if Nw splits up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Emppu joining Tarja's project....."

I would. He is not welcome there even if he wishes that.

Phantom said: "No but some songs like Gethsemane or Beauty And The Beast, may hint to the fact that he was already in love with her. It' s just a speculation because I don't know, but to me it seems that all those songs are linked to each other. "

Also She Is My Sin and Cum Cover Me. However I don't think those love songs Tuomas wrote were directed to Tarja. I doubt they were directed at any particular and REAL woman. I forgot that part from EoI DVD where he mentions that Gethsemane is dedicated to a real person.

TT said: "but because Tuomas used and fooled other people (some media / a part of Nw's audience) to achieve his goal, making them his partners in crime."

I think those people are "beast of prey a breath away" from Tarja's song Enough. The people Tarja considered friends but who attacked her for Tuomas' sake.

mermaid said: "She was quite lucky she did it in this century - should we have another century she could get burned as well."

But should Nightwish lived in 15th century it would be much easier for Tuomas to be the century child. When almost whole world is illiterate and uneducated one needs to write only one book to be the century child. But to be the century child of the 21st century like Maestro is nowadays is way more challenging.

Phantom said: "Tuomas split the band in 2000 and then Tarja and Marcelo went to him to talk about things to change."

I think you mixed two things Phantom. Tuomas indeed split the band in 2000 and went to Lappi together with Tony Kakko from Sonata Arctica and, if my memory serves me well, it was Tony who persuaded him to continue with Nightwish. At that time he already informed all other members that Nightwish was dead but then he had to update the news. No Marcelo and Tarja back then. They did talk with Tuomas indeed, but AFTER Century Child World Tour because they were not satisfied with many things King Foo organized, so they wanted those things not to repeat on the next (Once) tour.

mermaid said: "I would like to use this opportunity to thank you all for joining us in this fantastic piece of communication.
Mainly I would like to express our gratitude to Tero Tolkki (MFF staff) who had to read all 4OO comments, whatever he thought about that.
Then, I would like to express my personal thanks to people who not just shared my (and their as well) thoughts, feelings and time,
But also did teach me something and therefore
SPECIAL THANKS TO:
Legeon, TheSeer, (our demolition band)
TT, Daniela, Thunder, James and many others
without whom this will not be possible. "

And THE BIGGEST THANK goes to Nightwish. They are the first ones without whom this would not be possible.

TheSeer (narrow-minded one) wrote on 28.07.2009 at 20:33
"So when Sami stepped over Tarja and the aggressor he did that by pure fluke, because he didn't even notice they were on the floor. I can only thank God he did NOT by accident stand on Tarja's face with his heavy shoes. "

Geez , there were already 2 guys, Marcelo and someone from the security! How can I make you understand my point? Did you actually see the video or not?

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 21:35
@TheSeer
"However I don't think those love songs Tuomas wrote were directed to Tarja. I doubt they were directed at any particular and REAL woman. I forgot that part from EoI DVD where he mentions that Gethsemane is dedicated to a real person. "

I said somewhere else that Tuomas mentioned that BATB is a personal song, and as he says in EOI Gethsemane is about a personal story too (there is even a dedication under the lyrics, and he thanks a certain "Beauty of Gethsemane garden" in the booklet)

"They did talk with Tuomas indeed, but AFTER Century Child World Tour because they were not satisfied with many things King Foo organized, so they wanted those things not to repeat on the next (Once) tour. "
No, I'm pretty sure it was BEFORE CC tour , because Tuomas told Tarja that he wanted to change the band line up firing Sami , check out the book.

Phantom wrote on 28.07.2009 at 21:40
Phantom: So you're saying you aren't from Italy and you don't write regularly on Tarja's official forum?

James: I'm not denying Tuomas's talent as a songwriter. But he is very overrated - he is not a unique genius who produces extremely original masterpieces as his hardcore fans view him. He's had his influences too, and Nightwish's music is not even THAT original, sophisticated, deep, challenging, emotionally capturing etc. It can be pretty cheap sometimes. Of course, it has its moments of brilliance too, such as The Kinslayer.

As I said, I still treasure the albums of Nightwish phase I, though, and like part of phase II (the music has a tendency to wear off faster the more recent it is because it has lost depth, contrary to what most people say). But even regarding Nightwish I, I've recognised that there is a lot of stuff out there (even in the same field) that is equal or even much better in many respects, and that the music has its place in history on par with and even below many others.

Nightwish is easy-listening metal, beginner's music. But it's a gateway to metal. So it has still merit. But its artistic merits are ultimately limited, if you look at it objectively.

I have criticisms against Christofer Johnsson as a private person too, but as an artist, he is clearly Tuomas's superior.

Please note that I'm not making up arbitrary standards just to denigrate NW's music. Tuomas fans like to say that every NW album has more "genius/art/metal/creativity/complexity/virtuosity/challenge/depth/soul/emotion/masterpiece" quality than the one before it. But the opposite is the case, if I use this yardstick to measure the music.

Hell, I enjoy some pretty bad music. Like Visions of Atlantis's debut. Artistically, it is derivative bordering on plagiarism, cheesy, simple and pretty worthless. It's not even inspired. It's a poor ripoff of Wishmaster-era Nightwish, Edenbridge and some other melodic/symphonic power metal bands. If you do not love this kind of music in general, you will probably hate it. But it has a quality that makes me forget all its imperfections and very low artistic quality/level and that makes it somehow great fun.

I'm not sure what it is, but I think it's what people mean by "heart/soul/spirit". I can hear that the musicians love this music and have fun, and it rubs off on me. I think it's what can make people enjoy listening to a really bad punk, NWOBHM or Norwegian black metal demo, recorded in someone's basement. The band may play essentially junk, but they do it with a passion and fervency that you can't help but be affected by it. They're really into it.

I hear that mystical, elusive quality in Tarja's music, too. Especially live.

(Someone said on last.fm that they prefer the melodies that Tony Kakko from Sonata Arctica writes to those that Tuomas lately writes. I can see why. Tony does a very good job at capturing the appeal of Tuomas's melodies. To me, he's the apprentice who's outclassed his master.)

All that, of course, while at the core of music, is deeply subjective.

But without the extremely questionable claims coming from Tuomas and his hardcore fans (including the curious idea that Anette's voice fits the music better), and the arrogant, hypocritical attitude, I would not mock them and I would not argue with what ultimately boils down to personal taste.

Not everything about Nightwish is subjective and a pure matter of taste, though. That's usually a lame excuse when arguments run out.

As for Metallica vs. Megadeth, did Metallica try to destroy Mustaine's reputation? Did they spread lies and accusations, write songs that were openly against him, were they pretentious to the point of portraying themselves as "geniuses" and their albums as "masterpieces for the ages"?

As for the mentioned Nightwish phases, I mean:

Nightwish I (classic phase with Tarja and Sami)

Nightwish II (commercial/sellout phase with Tarja and Marco)

Nightwish III (phase of decay with Anette and Marco)

If they don't make a U-turn, I don't even want to know about Nightwish IV.

It would be like MWS in many ways, except with more bombast and without the merits that this album still has, if the trend continues. It may not even appeal to the average teenager.

Almagest wrote on 28.07.2009 at 23:11
By the way, lots of "hits" in classical music have both a simple, catchy motif that makes them memorable and instantly recognisable, while they are otherwise complex. So writing complex music and writing simple, catchy melodies or hooklines is not a contradiction at all. Talent helps with writing a hit song, but the fact that you write hit songs does not mean that you are a musical genius and if you do not write catchy music at all, you can still be one. Lots of Tuomas fanboys/fangirls are caught up in simplistic correlations such as "catchy melodies" and "hit songs" = "sign of musical genius", even though they are quick to emphasise that Tuomas's simple, catchy melodies are so much better than other simple, catchy melodies. I have yet to see a coherent explanation for his putative incredible superiority as a songwriter. Nevertheless, it is treated as an objective, obvious fact. That's where the fanboyism starts.

TheSeer: I have learned something that you will probably find very interesting. A friend of ours is in contact with some Tuomas groupies who have said that he told them he is - well, not gay, obviously, but bisexual.

Almagest wrote on 28.07.2009 at 23:40
I'm not sure why Phantom keeps referring to a such obviously biased source as the NW book as proof that it was Marcelo caused the problems in the band, when it is clear that the book was written exactly to slander Marcelo (like for the pirated NW merchandise and CDs, not that there was ever anything close to a legally solid proof for those serious accusations), put all the blame on him, and write the "victor's history" that made the band look innocent, and when it is clear that the same problems are still there. Is Marcelo Anette's manager, too?

It seems that whenever serious problems arise in the band, Tuomas finds a member to fire; it's called sacrificing a pawn, or a fall guy. Happens all the time in politics and economy.

Almagest wrote on 29.07.2009 at 00:01
@Almaget , I'm not from Italy

": I have learned something that you will probably find very interesting. A friend of ours is in contact with some Tuomas groupies who have said that he told them he is - well, not gay, obviously, but bisexual."

Interesting, because I'm in contact with some other groupie who said he's straight ...who's right? XD
Bisexual with whom? Tero? LOL

It's a stupid rumour coming from Brasil

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 00:09
@Almagest , I don't think that the only problem in Nightwish was Marcelo , but that was the reason why they officially fired Tarja.
I perfectly know the book is not neutral, I've looked at the big picture. Don't worrie.

Since you know so well that Tuomas is bisexual , then I doubt he was in love with Tarja XD , she's way too feminine XD . Marcelo wrote some bullshits then ;)

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 00:31
You guys, seriously...

Speculating and/or trying to spread rumours about band members' sexual orientation is extremely cheap. Come on. It's what kids get into when they run out of legitimate things to debate.

CanuckFan wrote on 29.07.2009 at 02:06
some overuse their body, other ones their brain, but the result is pretty the same.

TT wrote on 29.07.2009 at 03:18
please, don't wake up the beast who is sleeping (aka TheSeer)...

I've always thought Tuomas was necrodendrophile...

TT wrote on 29.07.2009 at 04:02
once again, for me three things could expain the split :

- they had diverging views about Nw management/touring, King Foo vs. Marcelo & Tarja.

- Tuomas couldn't cope with the fact Tarja was planning to leave NW, I guess mainly because it was about losing the control over his band and to lose her as well.

- Tarja get married to Marcelo, engaging a long term and serious relationship with someone else.

TT wrote on 29.07.2009 at 06:22
Guys,
as I use to tell to Seer - you see way too much in lyrics.

Actually, one of NW CDs - maybe even Century child, who knows? - I was actually way too lazy to check yesterday,

is DEDICATED to some CHRISTINE.

mermaid wrote on 29.07.2009 at 10:18
Phantom said: "Geez , there were already 2 guys, Marcelo and someone from the security! How can I make you understand my point? Did you actually see the video or not?"

Yes I saw the video. Last time was last year if I'm not wrong. And do not worry I get your point. It is that Nightwish couldn't stop playing their masterpiece because that would be THE END OF THE WORLD, right? Maestro would be "a dead boy who failed to PLAY an ending to one of his poems". And also the whole world would realize how much of their music actually comes from playback. Imagine that, all Nightwish members jump off to save Tarja, leaving their instruments, and FantasMic still goes on. XD

"I said somewhere else that Tuomas mentioned that BATB is a personal song"

I completely understand that one, it is about his girlfriend Belle.

"there is even a dedication under the lyrics, and he thanks a certain "Beauty of Gethsemane garden" in the booklet"

Beauty of Gethsemane garden? So he had another girlfriend, this time not from a cartoon but from the Bible? Or was he in love to the very Gethsemane garden itself?

Almagest said: "As for the mentioned Nightwish phases, I mean:

Nightwish I (classic phase with Tarja and Sami)

Nightwish II (commercial/sellout phase with Tarja and Marco)

Nightwish III (phase of decay with Anette and Marco)

If they don't make a U-turn, I don't even want to know about Nightwish IV. "

I like your Nightwish phases. :-)

Phantom said: "Interesting, because I'm in contact with some other groupie who said he's straight ...who's right? XD
Bisexual with whom? Tero? LOL "

And heterosexual with whom? Belle from the cartoon? Some beauty from the Bible? A mystical girl next door? Christine from Phantom of the Opera? Or groupies?

"Since you know so well that Tuomas is bisexual , then I doubt he was in love with Tarja XD , she's way too feminine XD . Marcelo wrote some bullshits then ;)"

Connect your brain again Phantom, Marcelo didn't say "Tuomas was in love with Tarja" but "Tuomas told Tarja he was in love with her". And you seem not to have any clues what bisexual means...

CanuckFan said: "Speculating and/or trying to spread rumours about band members' sexual orientation is extremely cheap."

I agree but I think Maestro deserves to be treated in a cheap way.

TheSeer wrote on 29.07.2009 at 13:38
Seer,
"Imagine that, all Nightwish members jump off to save Tarja, leaving their instruments, and FantasMic still goes on. XD "

I just LOVE your comments.

As for cheap once (comments) "what goes around comes around"

or as we use to say this: "what you borrow, you get back"

how could be comments not cheap to such cheaps articles and deeds?

Let us have an expensive one and we will try to do our best to overhelm you.... :-)

mermaid wrote on 29.07.2009 at 14:29
@Phantom
Ok, I got it, Marcelo was the main problem of all band's misfortunes . You stick only to the version from NW's book and Tuomas's letter. Very touching and very typical. Actually Tarja was planning to leave after one more album after Once and she warned them about it in advance, but Tuomas made a big fuss as if she never told them that with this "she said she could leave anyday".
BTW, Emppu was giving credit to Marcelo as a manger and his actions as a manager, saying he was acting like professional with promoters - it is in NW book which you stick to. Emppu was lying or was totally wrong then? Or seems like again it was Tuomas who needed to make Marcelo into such no good manager - somebody must serve as a scapegoat. How comfortable.
BTW, who is to be blamed now for all bad things happening in NW? Ewo? Or it is also Marcelo's fault? Tuomas is untouchable isn't he?

About Beauty and the Beast and Gethsemane - if he said that it were personal songs for whatever reasons it means they are definately about Tarja? Or about real girl and not about some of his ideal visions of perfect girl? Lol

ruth wrote on 29.07.2009 at 17:02
Guys, do not waste time on Phantom.
Don't you see that he (or more possibly she) is just a closeted Tuomasfan who tries to act as on objective person cause thus his or hers posts would be much more trustworthy. Look how Phantom is always protecting Tuomas and NW - according to Phantom there is nothing wrong that Tuomas and band dind't help their vocalist when she was attacked, but Marcelo naturally was the main problem in the band, Phantom also goes almost hysterical whenever somebody says that Tuomas is not so perfect, has problems as person and always finds reasons why Tuomas can't be blamed! also Phantom relies completely on NW book and the famous letter though tries to pretend that he or she sees the whole picture! :)))

*** wrote on 29.07.2009 at 17:32
"I agree but I think Maestro deserves to be treated in a cheap way."

@Seer

This is one of the best quotes I've read in a long time, he has really gotten off easy so far, his so called suffering and hating himself is just not enough

Does anyone know, has the Finnish media ever been really critical of him for stabbing a band member in the back? It just doesn't seem like telling personal conversations in an Open Letter should be allowed or at least tolerated

@***

Yes, you hit the nail on the head, Phantom is a closet Tuomas fangirl (not so much in the closet tho) she says a few of his flaws, but then goes into rage when anyone else dares talk about her dream guys personal life, as if she's his saviour

Phoenix wrote on 29.07.2009 at 18:02
@TheSeer

"Connect your brain again Phantom, Marcelo didn't say "Tuomas was in love with Tarja" but "Tuomas told Tarja he was in love with her". And you seem not to have any clues what bisexual means... "

You have to connect your brain , I was jocking.
I know very well bisexuals don't worrie. I'm a redneck bastard so I'm not that fond of people who prefers both.

"And heterosexual with whom? Belle from the cartoon? Some beauty from the Bible? A mystical girl next door? Christine from Phantom of the Opera? Or groupies? "

Lol I've repeated this hundreads of times but you don't get it. Yes also with groupies, it is quite well know. And I don't know how to make you understand you that he had a fucking girlfriend for years in 2004 but NOBODY saw her in the press because he likes to keep his private (= relationship) life as PRIVATE (which is totally understandable). And if you wonder, she was a girl, not a male nor Belle. If he has a girlfriend you won't probably find it in the tabloids.

"Beauty of Gethsemane garden? So he had another girlfriend, this time not from a cartoon but from the Bible? Or was he in love to the very Gethsemane garden itself? "

Yes, Tuomas had other girlfriends other than fantasies on Tarja or Belle XD , surprised?

Oh you forgot that he mentioned a certain Nina in the CC booklet..is she a imaginary girl too? XD
You can't seriously think people will find your theories credible The Seer :D . Where the hell do you live? In a world where famous people should present their girlfriends in public? Do you know who is Marco's girlfriend or some other finnish musician girlfriend? They are guys from Nightwish not Madonna.

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 19:17
@Ruth
"Ok, I got it, Marcelo was the main problem of all band's misfortunes . You stick only to the version from NW's book and Tuomas's letter. Very touching and very typical."

Ruth please, find some of my other posts about the split (if I remember where I wrote it I'll copy paste it here) , you will notice that I don't stick to Nightwish version.
I think the narrow minded here is you and some other people here, because you stick only to one version too (Marcelo's version) . Now why Marcelo should be totally holy and Tuomas' totally evil? I guess I can make the same question to you. Can you answer me? I doubt it.

"About Beauty and the Beast and Gethsemane - if he said that it were personal songs for whatever reasons it means they are definately about Tarja? Or about real girl and not about some of his ideal visions of perfect girl? Lol"

I didn't say they are necessairly about Tarja, don't twist my words please.

*** , the only one not being objective here is you and all the other people, read some other posts I wrote before talking shit only because I dared to say that ACCORDING TO NIGHTWISH the main problem was Marcelo. This is an objective info, and it doesn't mean Nightwish are right.
On the other hand, for you and some people Marcelo is right in everything he does and says

@Phoenix, I'm not a girl ..wrong.

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 19:28
Ok, since I'm tired of people telling me that I'm not objective :D (as you would be objective XD) . Here is a post I wrote under this new :
http://www.metalfromfinland.com/news/2009-06-18_14:10/tarja_turunen_false_information_about_polish_show

"She was kicked out because she and her husband interfeered with the plans of the band who wanted to tour as much as possible, like they just did with DPP tour (which lead to a breakdown of their new singer..who "casually" hired a personal manager and a tour manager after the crisis) . Tarja didn't want to do so many shows for her own health, she didn't like some venues which in her opinion were too small and they didn't have not even a changing boot. And her mistake was letting Marcelo interfeere too much on money things (sometimes he was kinda pressing the NW management to ask more money to the promoters which ,of course, in the end pissed off the promoters). So these things can be seen as "diva-ish"...but look at them in an other perspective for once. Tarja was in a band in which the comunication sucks (confirmed by latest events with Anette) ; her husband has always supported her and so she clearly trusts him..plus her husband tend to do that business stuff in his own way (if he believed they could ask more, he did ask more...Emppu commented that Marcelo actions were not always wrong). It's easy to understand that this pissed off the band , and they had their share of good points.no doubt, and absolutely right to fire her. But the band was no innocent either, NW management is no innocent either and had a big role in this crisis..so they didn't have the right, neither the reasons to fire her like that writing that stuff which is exhagerated. Because I really really doubt she is a diva.
About the travelling and the rehearsal...all bullshits. How do you think they travel now? Always happy and together? No , when they can they travel separately if it's more confortable. And about the rehearsal..you think Anette will partecipate to the creative process...well not :P . So these things were not a problem for the band and Tuomas clearly said it in the letter. But since he's also a smartass and knows there are guillable fans like you, he thought it was useful to insert that stuff in the letter to make people understand Tarja was replacable..I'm sure he didn't want to accuse Tarja for these things (not rehearsing etc) but he managed in his intent to tell she is replacable."

That's how I rely so much on the NW book and on the NW bullshits :D .
Before talking , think a little bit. Otherwise you can all fuck yourself with your "objectivity" and "truth"

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 19:37
"I think the narrow minded here is you and some other people here, because you stick only to one version too (Marcelo's version) . Now why Marcelo should be totally holy and Tuomas' totally evil? I guess I can make the same question to you. Can you answer me? I doubt it. "

You are so humble, Phantom. First you wrote posts with such emotional lines: "Marcelo was THE problem, it's FUCKING CLEAR! " And when you call others narrow-minded? Besides somehow you ignored my questions about those Emppu's words about Marcelo and about responsibility for current situation in the band :)) How strange. Why I consider Tuomas not so good and even bad (in your words "evil")? Cause he made such a drama about Tarja's character, behaviour, her husband, like it was Apocalypse on Earth, and when you look what current singer is doing, at the situation in the band between members and how many gigs were cancelled and things didn't work out with some promoters, you really start to ask questions - if exactly the same things happen now, while those two evil people are removed from the band long ago, who is responsible for it now and why Tuomas isn't all dramatic again? He is the leader of the band and he was supposed to erupt with anger at seeing all that deja vu as he was so furious about such things in first case, but somehow he doesn't do that now as if it is not important to him at all. So why did he make such a melodrama back then? Any real good reasons, besides that he was jealous and didn't like Marcelo? Or smth else? Marcelo isn't holy , frankly speaking he is not pleasent to my liking at all :) But is he really a "serpent fron heaven" or "mafioso" or something like that ,like Tuomas liked to call him if I remember? Somehow I do not think so :)

"I didn't say they are necessairly about Tarja, don't twist my words please. "
Do not twist mine also then. And there was a second question but you also ignored :)

Ruth wrote on 29.07.2009 at 20:27
@Ruth
"You are so humble, Phantom. First you wrote posts with such emotional lines: "Marcelo was THE problem, it's FUCKING CLEAR! "

Because I meant that according to what the band said Marcelo was the problem. I never said that Marcelo is the ultimate evil and the ultimate cause of NW problems.
Can you please read my post before yours before talking? :)

"Besides somehow you ignored my questions about those Emppu's words about Marcelo and about responsibility for current situation in the band :)) How strange"
I didn't ignore it, please read what I wrote.
I think my english is not good enough that I keep repeating the same stuff all over again.

"if exactly the same things happen now, while those two evil people are removed from the band long ago,"

Well, gigs of DPP have not being cancelled because someone didn't find them convenient , but because people were ill

"But is he really a "serpent fron heaven" or "mafioso" or something like that ,like Tuomas liked to call him if I remember? Somehow I do not think so :) "
That's my point , if you would have read what I actually wrote you would have spared some writing.

I said that some things in those songs may hint to the fact they were dedicated to Tarja as well. However it's a speculation, an hypothesis, a mere idea not based on reality..should I go on with synonimous? XD

Ok, let's not ignore the second question...*sighs
"Or about real girl and not about some of his ideal visions of perfect girl? Lol" "

Or isn't it possible that they are written for some fucking random chick he knew or dated ? I mean, why this dude must be necessairly in love with Tarja, necessairly in love with a fantasy character, necessairly gay-bisexual-pansexual-asexual lol and etc etc etc..

Phantom wrote on 29.07.2009 at 21:34
"Because I meant that according to what the band said Marcelo was the problem. I never said that Marcelo is the ultimate evil and the ultimate cause of NW problems.
Can you please read my post before yours before talking? :) "

I did. Well ,according to the contex of that post where you wrote those lines it didn't seem like you were talking that is was band's opinion, it seemed like you were talking about your opinion on this matter. :)

"I didn't ignore it, please read what I wrote.
I think my english is not good enough that I keep repeating the same stuff all over again. "

You actually only mentioned as well that Emppu gave credit to Marcelo in some case. Nothing more. And you gave a very broad speculaton about current problems in the band, but without concentrating on the causes of these problems.

"Well, gigs of DPP have not being cancelled because someone didn't find them convenient , but because people were ill "

Iceland gig, one of Brazil gigs, Russian gig were cancelled not because somebody was ill:) And I was speaking not only about the gigs.

"I said that some things in those songs may hint to the fact they were dedicated to Tarja as well. However it's a speculation, an hypothesis, a mere idea not based on reality.."

The speculations can't last forever, otherwise it is just way too much.There must be some kind of reasonable limits at least. Even if speculations about ED, GLS and whole CC album seem more justified in being real, it doesn't mean that now you'll need to pick songs from any early NW albums to speculate if it was about Tarja or it wasn't about her. Or else it will lead to speculations that Nymphomaniac fantasia is also song about Tuomas's erotic dremas of Tarja or something like that ,lol

"Or isn't it possible that they are written for some fucking random chick he knew or dated ? I mean, why this dude must be necessairly in love with Tarja, necessairly in love with a fantasy character, necessairly gay-bisexual-pansexual-asexual lol and etc etc etc.. "

I didn't think that they should be only either about Tarja or about dream girl. They also may be about some other real girls he dated. After all WIHAA is based on the situation with him and his then girlfrined. Still, as he calles himself a dreamer and escapist and has some kind of ideal image of his dream girl in his mind, lots of his songs probably serve here exactly the same way like the Fair Damsel cult in the Middleages - knights kept image of Fair Damsels in their heads, for whom they did fight or wrote poems, but it often even were not real persons :).
And it wasn't me who commented on his sexual orientation, btw.

Ruth wrote on 29.07.2009 at 22:52
Century Child is dedicated to Christine Daaé? Yes, that looks like our Phantom indeed. Funny enough, Christine is Swedish in the novel ...

TheSeer: I wonder why Tuomas apparently never wanted to play the first part of FantasMic or The Riddler live, with a little help from his tapes ... but perhaps he thought it would be too obvious?

How do you call someone whose only sexual partners are cartoon characters? :-)

I love the phases too. They are a handy way of referring to the great, the good, and the ugly. I'd like a T-shirt saying "Nightwish I". Several different logos would also be nice. I'm bored of always the same old logo with a pre-set font. Did you know that on the NW webshop, you can still buy T-shirts with Tarja on them?

I wonder if Nightwish III will simply be struck out of the history books after Hartwall. Wait, that's not necessary because it's not in The Book anyway. All that is needed is a damnatio memoriae for Anette, so all references to her time with Nightwish will be removed from the Internets. Also the singles and albums, the T-shirts and other merchandise will be burned to spare Maestro embarrassment. Perhaps there will be a new Nightwish book - with only empty pages. Of course for the same price as the old one. "Author ****** ***** opens her mind and tells us all about her time with Nightwish." Then we'll have to wait for the third part that details phase IV.

Almagest wrote on 29.07.2009 at 23:51
Phantom: Amazing, you and the person I've confused you with are like siblings or even twins ... So you don't write on the official Tarja forum?

Somehow I find it extremely hard to believe that a song such as "Feel for You" is simply about a "random chick" or a pure "fantasy". Why all the drama for ephemeral flirts?

Many gigs were not cancelled even though Tarja was ill. That's because she, unlike Anette, can even sing when she can't even talk. Well, Anette can't even sing when she's healthy. :-)

Why do even Tarja fans automatically assume that Marcelo is an unpleasant person? His business decisions may not always be beyond doubt, but most of us are not so deeply inside the business that we could judge his activities, which have little to do with his character as a private person anyway. He might seem a bit aloof or reserved, but from my own experience and those of other people, he is a cool person in fact.

Or do you nurse a grievance against him because he does actually NOT interfere with his wife's music even though he's on our side? ;-)

Almagest wrote on 30.07.2009 at 00:55
"How do you call someone whose only sexual partners are cartoon characters? :-) "

What the hell you know about Tuomas Holopainen sexual partners? lol..are you his secretary?! XD

Phantom wrote on 30.07.2009 at 04:15
I guess Almagest or TheSeer could even pay for being his private secretary.

8)

TT wrote on 30.07.2009 at 05:36
You keep forgetting the possibilities that modern technology offers for stalkers. TheSeer and I are in fact sitting in a big room full of surveillance monitors where we can follow every step of Tuomas and his "sisters". :-)

Almagest wrote on 30.07.2009 at 11:20
By the way, does it just seem that way to me or have the comments on other articles (i. e. those not connected with NW or Tarja) also increased? Is MFF getting livelier - thanks to OUR effort?

Almagest wrote on 30.07.2009 at 11:29
@Almagest

You are correct. I have also noticed that there are even some comments on other news except NW and Tarja these days :) I don't know if it's due to your hardworking or is MFF just getting more popular. In either way, hopefully it keeps on growing!

Tero
MFF

MFF Staff wrote on 30.07.2009 at 11:32
What do you think, Tero,

are we going to achieve 500 comments on this one?
We still have one more month, or am I wrong?

mermaid wrote on 30.07.2009 at 11:46
@mermaid

Easily :) This will be the 430th comment and there is still in fact 2 months time cause this news is only 1 month old...man you have all been very busy :D

Tero
MFF

MFF Staff wrote on 30.07.2009 at 12:03
Tero,

funny how it turned out. If you think about the title of the article and about the article itself, it was no REAL news.

But as I see it now it was THE BREAK EVENT point for people coming here.

Before NW was increasingly criticised, but hard dies have beeing fighting as lions, shutting us up suggested us to get a life etc.

If I remember correctly from this point on we started to receive conffesions from those who have been fans but now they change their minds..

Break-events are not in economy only.

People have them ,too...

Actually, there is no new article about NW since 21st!

Are they OK?

mermaid wrote on 30.07.2009 at 12:37
Poor Phantom, not only that he cannot convince people that he is not Maestro's die-hard but he even cannot convince them that he is a boy and not a girl. Hopefully he'll learn his lesson about not taking sides/playing with them.

Almagest said: "How do you call someone whose only sexual partners are cartoon characters? :-) "

I've already forged the term disneysexual somewhere, lol.

@mermaid: This article was indeed the breaking point. 400 comments and NO die-hards at all. For the first time. First, I thought they were all tired in defending what's not to be defended. But the later "normal Nightwish news" showed the same thing - no die-hards at all. They are all probably passing through a difficult phase in their life. I wish them luck and I'm also eager to hear their confessions too, when they are ready.

DerSeher wrote on 30.07.2009 at 15:15
Seer said:
"I wish them luck and I'm also eager to hear their confessions too, when they are ready. "

You mean: when they will pass their resurrection..

Actually, for those of you, who do not speak German: Seer and Seher are the same person.

And by the way what "lol" means?

mermaid wrote on 30.07.2009 at 15:54
mermaid said: "And by the way what "lol" means?"

First I thought it means devil horns but I was wrong. "m/" or "o/" stands for devil horns, and "lol" is short for "laughing out loud". Basically it means HAHAHAHA.

TheSeer wrote on 30.07.2009 at 16:07
It didn't display the devil horns correctly. It didn't display backslash.

backslash, m, slash

or

backslash, o, slash

TheSeer wrote on 30.07.2009 at 16:15
Seer,

thanks. Any idea about "blowing own trumpet"? mentioned by TT?

I should say I am not musician at all...

mermaid wrote on 30.07.2009 at 16:19
"You keep forgetting the possibilities that modern technology offers for stalkers. TheSeer and I are in fact sitting in a big room full of surveillance monitors where we can follow every step of Tuomas and his "sisters". :-)"

Almagest, sure..through rumours and bullshits.
I doubt that people close to him are willing to spill the beans to a stupid stalker XD
Those groupies are very trusty , sure XD

@TT, yes I believe that Almagest and TheSeer are secretly obsessed with Tuomas

@TheSeer , I like Tuomas as musician, period. Just like I like Tarja. Wait , am I bisexual?
As for my gender, I already told you I'm hermaphrodite.

Phantom wrote on 30.07.2009 at 16:21
@Ruth
"You actually only mentioned as well that Emppu gave credit to Marcelo in some case. Nothing more. And you gave a very broad speculaton about current problems in the band, but without concentrating on the causes of these problems. "

Maybe because if I did my post would have been veeery long.lol
Ok so what's the source of the problems in this band? you are so sure about it..

"Even if speculations about ED, GLS and whole CC album seem more justified in being real, it doesn't mean that now you'll need to pick songs from any early NW albums to speculate if it was about Tarja or it wasn't about her. Or else it will lead to speculations that Nymphomaniac fantasia is also song about Tuomas's erotic dremas of Tarja or something like that ,lol"

No, I don't pick any songs of each albums. I just said that some songs seem to be connect to the others and they could be about a same person.

"Still, as he calles himself a dreamer and escapist and has some kind of ideal image of his dream girl in his mind"

Everybody has had/have an image of ideal girl/man in his mind at some point. And being an "escapist" is not that uncommon, really. Even what we are doing here can be called escapism, we keep on speculating on someone-else life.

@Almagest
"Century Child is dedicated to Christine Daaé? Yes, that looks like our Phantom indeed. Funny enough, Christine is Swedish in the novel ... "

ahah what the hell! Christine is probably some friend of his..

@TheSeer
"Hopefully he'll learn his lesson about not taking sides/playing with them. "
I won't take example from you for sure XD

Phantom wrote on 30.07.2009 at 16:36
mermaid said :
"And by the way what "lol" means?"

lol !!

TT wrote on 30.07.2009 at 17:33
Mermaid said :

"are we going to achieve 500 comments on this one?
We still have one more month, or am I wrong?"

ahah!! and you already wrote 100 of them !! what an achievement ! if we count the words, I guess it's just about 60% of your childish gossisping....

TT wrote on 30.07.2009 at 17:43
@ Mermaid:

TT probably meant to say "blowing his own horn" or as we say over the pond here "tooting his own horn."

If I were "tooting my own horn" I would be mildly bragging or giving myself kudos.

CanuckFan wrote on 30.07.2009 at 18:18
you're of great help CanuckFan,

"blowing one's own trumpet" is about giving oneself brownie points ... strangely mermaid can hardly understand those kind of basic stuff...

TT wrote on 30.07.2009 at 19:43
Phantom: There was a time when I found Tuomas extremely likeable for his "soft" image and his very open, self-critical assertions. Now that he's turned into an arrogant, misogynist macho (or perhaps he was always like that, in reality) I cannot empathise with him anymore.

So it seems I was just deceived by his image. I don't take hypocrites and liars well.

Almagest wrote on 31.07.2009 at 01:30
Almagest,
"misogynist macho "

sorry but "macho" and "Tuomas" don't go in the same sentence :)) . I wonder why a mysoginist would think about forming a girl-fronted band and not a "masculine" band like Rammstein for example :P

When I think of "machism" I think about someone like Marcelo with his "she is mine, don't you dare to approach her" attitude :P ;)

Phantom wrote on 31.07.2009 at 03:26
Phantom said: "@TheSeer , I like Tuomas as musician, period. Just like I like Tarja. Wait , am I bisexual? "

Do it with a girl and then do it with a boy (btw kissing is enough). THEN you'll know for sure. I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow. When I come back 3 weeks later I'm going to ask you the same question. You have enough time to find out. And didn't you tell somewhere how you have "awfully much free time" and that "it is stressing you". ;-)

And the others, I want to see 500 comments here when I come back. :-)

Phantom said: "No, I don't pick any songs of each albums. I just said that some songs seem to be connect to the others and they could be about a same person."

So everything is "maybe", "could be", "some songs", "some others"... wow Phantom, you could also be the seer! :-p

"Everybody has had/have an image of ideal girl/man in his mind at some point."

Yeah at SOME point. But not at 33.

TheSeer wrote on 31.07.2009 at 14:52
CahnuchFan said:

"f I were "tooting my own horn" I would be mildly bragging or giving myself kudos."

You mean "self praise"?

I would not guess that. In here this just mean you are playing a musical instrument. It might mean (under some special circumstances) that it is about your dick :-)
and you are doing handy work to release your frustrations.

As far as it was directed to me and I am female - that was just way too weird, if you get my point.
:-)

PS: on self praise - mainly in excessive quantity - we have only one comment: "now the smell is reeeeally bad..." (we consider self praise to create a BAD smell)

It is strange that TT does not know such basic stuff - even 4 years old children here know THAT one.

mermaid wrote on 31.07.2009 at 15:08
Seer said:
""Everybody has had/have an image of ideal girl/man in his mind at some point."

Yeah at SOME point. But not at 33."

I had one when I was 14. When I was 17 I knew I would have one daughter and I even chose a name.
:-)

mermaid wrote on 31.07.2009 at 16:05
The Seer, thanks for your suggestion but I don't like the "gay way" , I think I'll live under the benefit of doubt. That's how us narrow-minded homophobic rednecks live.

Nowadays everybody kisses someone of the same sex (there is even that stupid song "I kissed a girl and I liked it.." ) , it's fashionable . It turns girls or boys on (boys for sure) :D .

"Yeah at SOME point. But not at 33."

People can dream also at 33.
Being realistic, you are ignoring the factor "interview diplomacy" . You take each words so seriously . I mean the question was "what's your ideal woman" , what would you answer (I know that in your case it's the ideal man) . Would you say "I don't have an ideal man, he needs to have just a dick" :D . Or would you try to elaborate a little bit ?
Imagine you are a famous person, some journalist asks you the same question. You have a boyfriend but you don't want to let press know it because you know that the day after they would come up with a title "The Seer has a boyfriend since, who is called Mr. X etc" . What would you say? The first bullshit it comes to your mind or you would reveal a part of your relationship life to a journalist?

Phantom wrote on 31.07.2009 at 18:06
@Phantom

"Ok so what's the source of the problems in this band? you are so sure about it.. "

Actually I would like to hear your opinion on this matter, that's why I raised that issue :)

"No, I don't pick any songs of each albums. I just said that some songs seem to be connect to the others and they could be about a same person. "

I was talking in general, not about you only, cause many others like to find in almost every NW song track of Tarja :)

"Everybody has had/have an image of ideal girl/man in his mind at some point. And being an "escapist" is not that uncommon, really. Even what we are doing here can be called escapism, we keep on speculating on someone-else life. "

At some point, but not as deep as it seems in his case. And speculating here is just a small talk, chat, but it can't be really called a full time "escapism" and a trend of life, at least not for me. I do not want to run from the real life, I am not afraid of responsibility, it is too interesting to hide from :)

Ruth wrote on 01.08.2009 at 21:52
Ruth,
in my opinion the problem is poor comunication, not so good management. But the main problem with DPP tour has been the big number of shows. In 2004 the situation was the same but there was also Marcelo. He surely wanted to help Tarja or he thought that he was doing the right things but in the end he caused problems. I don't think all that stuff written in that book is completely invented. It's not objective at all but I doubt it tells 100% bullshits.

As for Tuomas "ideal woman", I told to Seer that he didn't consider the factor "interview diplomacy" (if you are referring to what he told in that interview about his ideal woman).
I don't get your point to be honest. I can't see what's so weird about this "ideal woman" thing. Are you one of those convinced that Tuomas has no life, or he's gay, or he writes bullshits in lyrics? XD

"And speculating here is just a small talk, chat, but it can't be really called a full time "escapism" and a trend of life, at least not for me. I do not want to run from the real life, I am not afraid of responsibility, it is too interesting to hide from :)"

Of course, I made just an example, I know that here it's small talk and not big deal. I just wanted to point out that "escapism" is not that weird and uncommon. It doesn't necessairly mean that you withdraw completely from real life. As a matter of fact I think Tuomas does "escapism" only when it's convenient for him :P . I think he knows perfectly his "business".

Phantom wrote on 01.08.2009 at 23:40
@Phantom

"in my opinion the problem is poor comunication, not so good management.
It's not objective at all but I doubt it tells 100% bullshits. "

And why is there such poor communication in the band? What is the cause? :) such things do not exist without a cause.
If book is not obviously objective, how can you tell how many bullshit is there?

"I don't get your point to be honest. I can't see what's so weird about this "ideal woman" thing."

Maybe because it is quite immature for a grown-up person, not a teenager or young adult to be keen on that :)

"I just wanted to point out that "escapism" is not that weird and uncommon. It doesn't necessairly mean that you withdraw completely from real life. As a matter of fact I think Tuomas does "escapism" only when it's convenient for him :P . I think he knows perfectly his "business"."

Actually "escapism" is a bad thing if you are into that for a long time, specially if it complies with being a coward or liar :)
Tuomas does "escapism" only when it is convenient for him? You mean he is faking his escapistic nature and romantic one? Interesting point of view :)

Ruth wrote on 02.08.2009 at 01:00
Ruth,

"And why is there such poor communication in the band? What is the cause? :) such things do not exist without a cause.
If book is not obviously objective, how can you tell how many bullshit is there? "

Because they can't invent things completely. It's the way it is presented which makes it unobjective. I'm not inside the band I can't say why there is poor communication. Do you have any ideas?

"Maybe because it is quite immature for a grown-up person, not a teenager or young adult to be keen on that :)"
Have you actually considered that that's just something said in an interview? What do we know about Tuomas Holopainen's relationships? We can't know details about his private life , as much as we like to speculate about it , dig information from every possible (questionable) source. You'll never know if he's dating or not and with whom.

"Tuomas does "escapism" only when it is convenient for him? You mean he is faking his escapistic nature and romantic one? Interesting point of view :) "
Not faking. I think that when he has to "wake up" for certain things he's able to do it. I think he's not such a naive person who lives in his world of escapism all the time. :)

Phantom wrote on 02.08.2009 at 02:03
"Because they can't invent things completely. It's the way it is presented which makes it unobjective. I'm not inside the band I can't say why there is poor communication. Do you have any ideas? "

But if they presented the whole thing in such way that it made the whole thing unobjective, how can you tell and be so sure that there is no way that they can invent things completely? People who deliberately present things in unobjective light are usually called "liars".
And I really would like to know your ideas why there is a poor communication in the band which seems to exist for a long time :) That's why I raised that issue.

"We can't know details about his private life , as much as we like to speculate about it , dig information from every possible (questionable) source. You'll never know if he's dating or not and with whom".

Well, we know that Jukka has wife and two children. Emppu also has girlfriend and a child, doesn't he? Marco has two children. We know that, though we do not know details of their personal life and we do not need to know them :) They didn't keep it as a secret . And they never did a big deal about some "ideal girl" neither in their interviews or words, nor in their works.

"Not faking. I think that when he has to "wake up" for certain things he's able to do it. I think he's not such a naive person who lives in his world of escapism all the time. :)"

So when it it is convinient he does "escapism" and plays a naive person or romantic one in his lyrcis, and when it is not convinient to him he doesn't?

Ruth wrote on 02.08.2009 at 15:55
Ruth said:
"Maybe because it is quite immature for a grown-up person, not a teenager or young adult to be keen on that :) "

we know that, Ruth, but again - even if you try hard you will not explain this to Pahntom - who´s ideal man is clearly Maestro himself.

You explained why - she is a little girl.

Should she have a real boyfriend with real lips and real hands and real dick

she would have different problems then to sit by computer and type here that

"Sex is overrated."

And other terrifying revelations.

Sex is overrated, indeed. And if you want to know what is Maestro doing, thinking and planning

- this little girl from Italy is indeed the best source you could have.

mermaid wrote on 03.08.2009 at 12:13
Ruth
there is no need for you to know my opinions.
According to Mermaid, who knows and foresee everything, I'm just a "little girl from Italy" (while I said that I'm not little, neither girl and not from Italy), I'm a "fangirl" and so on. I suppose that my opinion doesn't count .
You should ask her , I'm sure her "grown up woman" opinion is much more valuable than mine. She spends days here, she knows a lot about life and about foreign cultures. She comes here to learn new things, as she told me.

Have fun :))

Phantom wrote on 05.08.2009 at 13:26
Ruth,
"They didn't keep it as a secret . And they never did a big deal about some "ideal girl" neither in their interviews or words, nor in their works."

Tuomas has mentioned several times in interviews, book, whatever that he had a girlfriend until 2004. This piece of info has been ignored here, because people want to see pictures.

Phantom wrote on 05.08.2009 at 19:30
Seer said:
"And the others, I want to see 500 comments here when I come back. :-)"

well, that is a TASK!

Still, let us try and check who is still coming here, on this old cold place...

So, first: Ruth,

you know you are right. I agree with evyrithin you typed in your last comments. You could see that me and Seer expressed the same opinion, too.

Hope you will pop here more often. I liked your reasoning and I know Seer will love you, too.

Daniela,

whi kindly helped us to keep the fire in the fireplace when there have been 300 comments only:

I know you are Slovak and ther eare more Slovaks inhere, so my opinion on Anette is as follows:

She is just "kompletne drbnutá". :-)

What do you think? Apt enough?

mermaid wrote on 07.08.2009 at 15:10
Tero,

what is happening? Is MFF ok? Or is it just connection?

It takes so long to see own comment here that I do not know whether you actually received it....?

Anyway, no fun today, so

have a Nice Weekend!

MFF Staff: Don't worry, we always receive the comments. All the comments are checked before released and that might cause some lag depending if there are editors online.

Have a nice weekend too :)

mermaid wrote on 07.08.2009 at 15:29
Thanks, Tero.

OK, I anyway think that my computer is up to some emotional breakdown..

The quantity of sandhours I had to watch today is just NOT normal

and it is still typing ten minutes after I actually finished, so in time when letters are popping up I almost forgot what they should say.

Anyway, I wanted to ask: is not that a pity that there si no possibility to put pictures here..?

When I saw what is happening on today´s NW "news" I am speechless. Yet I know one picture what would fit just perfectly..

MFF Staff: Ehm...I don't think I will put on the possibility to put pictures here :) First of all it would make the page so much heavier especially on NW news ;)

Tero
MFF

mermaid wrote on 07.08.2009 at 16:46
:-)

I can imagine THAT.

So, only for you

- this is my position on what is happening there (today´s NW article):

http://www.super.cz/vtipky/15817-nemohu-se-na-to-divat.html

"nemohu se na to divat" means something like
"not strong enough to be able to watch this.."

So, now you know how I look like. At least today.

:-))

mermaid wrote on 07.08.2009 at 17:00
Mermaid

"you know you are right."

Right about what? :D
For example Ruth is not right that Emppu has a kid, he doesn't. She's not right that Tuomas is making a big deal about his ideal woman, he just said a couple of bullshits in a couple of interviews. You are making a big deal out of it taking them so seriously :D . Concerning the songs, I didn't read "lost love" songs anymore. They are just in Century Child and some songs in the first albums.
I can't see any big deal.

You didn't give her your precious opinions she asked. I'm interested too mermaid :) . An opinion of a grown up woman is always interested for a little kid like me. Am I right? :D

Phantom wrote on 07.08.2009 at 19:33
Phantom,

Ruth seems to be old and capable enough to be able to speak on her own behalf.

So, there is no need to stand in for her.

mermaid wrote on 10.08.2009 at 14:03
Phantom: Err, because he thought a female voice sounds nice (and sells)? Lots of rock/metal bands in the past have had sexy women in the band whose main purpose was to appeal to a male audience.

He never treated Tarja well (in fact treated her very badly sometimes - may I remind you of "sing, bitch, sing!"), basically he just ignored and neglected her (now he does the same with Anette), and eventually tried to destroy her career when she didn't do what he wanted. That's the definition of misogyny. Marcelo is hardly a macho - their marriage is very egalistic.

Legeon: Damn, I know what you're talking about. Do you use Firefox too? Since the last update, Firefox has fortunately stopped to be so sluggish (and to slow the whole system down).

By the way, I've got a new rumour. Jukka and especially Marco can't stand Anette at all and are very disappointed with her character. From the same source that the bisexuality thing came from, BTW. It doesn't matter where that comes from, ultimately, those who don't want to believe it won't believe it anyway.

Almagest wrote on 19.08.2009 at 23:38
@ Almagest

You were also the person who sent Tero the anonymous email about the Britney Spears copyright thingy that turned out to be false. That doesn't help with the credibility of your sources.

CanuckFan wrote on 20.08.2009 at 04:17
@Almagest

Actually, the definition of misogyny, according to the Oxford dictionary, is "the hatred of women." As in, hatred of the female gender.

CanuckFan wrote on 20.08.2009 at 06:15
Almagest, you didn't answer my question. Do you think EverDream lyrics (or similar lyrics) are something a mysoginist could write ?

Phantom wrote on 20.08.2009 at 11:04
"He never treated Tarja well (in fact treated her very badly sometimes - may I remind you of "sing, bitch, sing!"), basically he just ignored and neglected her (now he does the same with Anette), and eventually tried to destroy her career when she didn't do what he wanted. That's the definition of misogyny. Marcelo is hardly a macho - their marriage is very egalistic. "

But at the same time he was in love with her. So what is the bullshit? :P
I mean, someone who loves a girl might not be the most caring person on this planet, he might also feel some rage, anger and jealousy but deep inside he wouldn't hate the object of his love and desire (at some point), he wouldn't be classified "mysoginist". I sense a hint of contraddiction in your opinion.

I said that Marcelo attitude looked like a macho attitude, not that he's always like that. And not that he treats Tarja bad etc etc.

"It doesn't matter where that comes from, ultimately, those who don't want to believe it won't believe it anyway. "

It does matter, it does.
By the way, since you already dropped the bomb about Tuomas sexual preferences, do you have any evidences? Should we trust your words :D ? I don't think your powerful sources would have difficulties in providing some evidences.
I mean, so far we have proofs he likes girls (Marcelo's almighty words being one of them, for example) but almost nothing about him liking boys.
Or maybe your sources are "afraid" of spreading stupid rumours on a public forum like you are doing. :D

Phantom wrote on 20.08.2009 at 11:30
I just would like to remind you that "mysoginists" also reproduce.
Which means they do have sex, get married and eventually have some children.

Being mysoginist does not mean that you lose all other biological or social functions.

It is not like "either you are mysoginist OR you could feel atracted to female".

I think it is more like "either you are gay OR you are atrracted to female".

mysoginist is NOT the same as gay

And by the way there are men who killed women they loved. Raped them, harassed them.
Beat them.

Love is a strange thing.

mermaid wrote on 20.08.2009 at 17:57
Mermaid , do you think I said that mysoginist is the same as gay? Not at all
Of course mysoginist people feel attracted and so on. I don't read just pure sexual attraction in those lyrics.
I mean, what exactly makes Tuomas a mysoginist? So, all the other Nightwish members are mysoginist too, lol ? You don't have enough elements to classify them or him as mysoginist.
Perhaps they are a mysoginist band. :P

Can I ask you , out of curiosity, why you are so interested in Nightwish and Tuomas? I mean, I have a reason to be here since I still like the band a bit. You said many times you don't like them , so why you are so interested.

Phantom wrote on 20.08.2009 at 18:53
Phantom wrote:
"I mean, what exactly makes Tuomas a mysoginist? So, all the other Nightwish members are mysoginist too, lol ? You don't have enough elements to classify them or him as mysoginist.
Perhaps they are a mysoginist band. :P

Can I ask you , out of curiosity, why you are so interested in Nightwish and Tuomas? "
_________________________________________

Well, all of you, who CAN read, please,
will you have a look on my last comment and remind me where did I mention Maestro or NW or simply ANYBODY?

And when you will be at it - could you remind me -whom did I call "mysoginist"? I truly believe I never used that word on ANYBODY in my life.

So, is it just me, or am I right and Phantom deffinitely HAS PROBLEMS WITH READING?

mermaid wrote on 21.08.2009 at 10:17
"Well, all of you, who CAN read, please,
will you have a look on my last comment and remind me where did I mention Maestro or NW or simply ANYBODY?

And when you will be at it - could you remind me -whom did I call "mysoginist"? I truly believe I never used that word on ANYBODY in my life.

So, is it just me, or am I right and Phantom deffinitely HAS PROBLEMS WITH READING?"

Mermaid , did you realize that I was replying to Almagest before your last post? He called Nightwish mysoginists.
So, who has problems with reading now?
Do you know that when you have a discussion there is also something called "context" ? Do you think I brought up the mysoginist thing out of the blue? lol

Phantom wrote on 21.08.2009 at 11:06
Phantom wrote:
"Mermaid , did you realize that I was replying to Almagest before your last post? He called Nightwish mysoginists."
________________________
No, I did not, because you typed there:
"Mermaid , do you think I said that mysoginist is the same as gay? Not at all ...etc " (- as I mentioned before)

So, untill you do not call Almagest "mermaid" - you responded to ME and not to Almagest. (trying to imagine what kind of relationship :-) will authorize you to call somebody "mermaid")

I actually could not read your mind, so I did not know that when you started comment with "mermaid" you were in fact answering to Almagest.

Does that mean that when you start comment with "Almagest" then you in fact talk to me, or is this more complex and you mean in fact Legeon and when you type "Legeon" you mean in fact James?

And how is context related to this - well, ...

mermaid wrote on 21.08.2009 at 15:00
Geez Mermaid , do you do it on purpose or you are really like that?
My previous posts were directed to Almagest who was talking about Nightwish , that was the context! Is it clear ?
Of course my last post was directed to you, but it was referring to the discussion above.

Phantom wrote on 21.08.2009 at 15:48
I would truly like to know where is Legeon today.
And thinking about the demolition band:
Seer promised to be back in three weeks.

Three weeks passed already - where that boy is when due and needed?

Hope nothing bad happened to him...

And thinking about bad things happening:

Legeon, we saw fires in Greece.

Are you OK?

mermaid wrote on 24.08.2009 at 16:25
@Mermaid

I am seeing the fires in Greece here in the news, too, and am also thinking of Legeon. I hope she's OK!

We are having big time forest fires here in British Columbia, but luckily I don't live near any (YET - I do live in the forest; it's a matter of time...) and only have to put up with some smoke and haze.

CanuckFan wrote on 24.08.2009 at 18:45
What I said - you don't believe me anyway. ^^

About the Britney Spears thing - can't help it when the band THEMSELVES mentioned that PUBLICLY in a press conference. Can't help it when they aren't in touch with their management. :-)

Phantom: Love and hate are intimately connected. Never heard of hate-love? The opposite of love is not hate, but not caring at all. The "rape your rotten carcass" blah-blah lyrics don't point to love or uncaringness.

The point is, Tuomas has simply a very immature, egocentric view of women, putting a lot of expectations in them and getting angry when they don't fulfil it, when they don't behave like the princess in the fairy-tale and do what THEY want, not what HE wants, when women don't act like "puppet girls" - exactly like those emo lyrics.

I bet he was pissed that she never looked up to him as the sexy genius he likes to picture himself as.

Almagest wrote on 25.08.2009 at 03:23
Almagest wrote:
"I bet he was pissed that she never looked up to him as the sexy genius he likes to picture himself as."

I would say that Almagest just sum up the all tragedy of NW - but one more thing:
I would say that Maestro would be pissed if ANY woman would dare NOT TO LOOK UP to him.

That does not mean to me that he love every woman, or that he specifficaly loved Tarja.

One thing attracted my attention on that extremely boring "Maan Mainiot" documentary - when (I think) his sister mentioned something like" the main problem with Tuomas was that he was the yougest one and he always got what he wanted .."

mermaid wrote on 25.08.2009 at 11:10
CanuckFan:

I really hope that girl is ok - I checked on Tarja´s articles, too, and she was not there.

mermaid wrote on 25.08.2009 at 11:12
To Almagest:
"The "rape your rotten carcass" blah-blah lyrics "

Those lyrics are not referred to Tarja, of course in your "tarjacentric system" everything must be connected with Tarja.
And yes, I said myself that love-hate are quite connected :) .

"Tuomas has simply a very immature, egocentric view of women, putting a lot of expectations in them and getting angry when they don't fulfil it, when they don't behave like the princess in the fairy-tale and do what THEY want, not what HE wants, when women don't act like "puppet girls" - exactly like those emo lyrics. "
I still don't see how these things are supposed to be reality and Tuomas is supposed to be a mysoginist. Especially since you don't know him. I mean, it looks like a very simplicistic picture. My picture of him is not the poor misunderstood poet, not at all.

"I bet he was pissed that she never looked up to him as the sexy genius he likes to picture himself as."
There are two wrong things (in my opinion) in what you are saying here. One thing is that Tuomas, especially in the past, didn't look at himself as "sexy" ; lately he acts like that onstage, I supposed because he gained a nice amount of confidence. Still, I wouldn't consider him like someone who has always acted as a "sex symbol".
The second point is that Tarja looked up at him as a talented guy, I think you can easily find "proofs" in older interviews.

Phantom wrote on 25.08.2009 at 11:23
Mermaid :
"One thing attracted my attention on that extremely boring "Maan Mainiot" documentary - when (I think) his sister mentioned something like" the main problem with Tuomas was that he was the yougest one and he always got what he wanted ..""

Woah, you know that documentary by heart already :))

Phantom wrote on 25.08.2009 at 11:25
"One thing is that Tuomas, especially in the past, didn't look at himself as "sexy" "
______________________

Na - really?

It might be a cultural thing but boys who put together bands and play IN FRONT of other people THEIR own music are considered to be "cool" by other kids and they consider themselves to be cool as well.

To play IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE your OWN CREATION needs some piece of entertainer/peformer. These people do SHOW themselves.

I did teach teenagers who have problems to SPEAK publicly. Should they sign - they would die. Should they perform their own poetry or songs - the Earth would open and eat us all..

mermaid wrote on 25.08.2009 at 14:53
Now, as Almagest reminded us:

"He never treated Tarja well (in fact treated her very badly sometimes - may I remind you of "sing, bitch, sing!"), "
___________________________
- and it was in the real beggining of history of this band - their soon-to-be first CD was produced like that.

So, was or was not this boy dominant, rude and selfish - right from the start?
His friend was actually showing him a FAVOUR (nobody knew that time that she would ever get paid for that) and all she has got was that she was yelled at like this?

No, off course not - Maestro has the lowest selfesteem ever measured, he is humble, down-to-eatrh, etc.

Typical Oceansould in his best. Shadow-wolf as if made with a ruler.

Really.

mermaid wrote on 25.08.2009 at 16:43
Mermaid : lol
Of course it requires a certain self confidence and will to perform. Do you think Slayer look at themselves as "sexy" too lol? What about Gorgoroth or Mayhem? XD
Seriously, do you find Tuomas look/stage presence/ attitude until Wishmaster-Century Child time a "I'm such a sexy man"-attitude ?
Did you look at his pictures when he started Nightwish, he looked like a nerd.

Phantom wrote on 25.08.2009 at 17:17
Phantom: Then, who are the lyrics referring to? Tuomas secretly desires to rape Marcelo, or what? ;-)

Ah, more strawmen coming. I've never said she didn't respect his talent. She just never went all bonkers about him nor worshipped him as a genius like his fangirls and groupies.

Almagest wrote on 26.08.2009 at 02:45
"Phantom: Then, who are the lyrics referring to? Tuomas secretly desires to rape Marcelo, or what? ;-)

Ah, more strawmen coming. I've never said she didn't respect his talent. She just never went all bonkers about him nor worshipped him as a genius like his fangirls and groupies."

And do you think that "rape" is necessairly referred to one person in particular? It's not even meant in a physical way of course. I think it refers to the press and to the exhagerated mess which went on after the split. For example, people didn't send threatening letters to Tarja and Marcelo but also to Tuomas.
It could be a way to interprete those lyrics, the Poet And The Pendulum is not necessairly a song directed to Tarja, although it deals with the split and there are some references.

I don't think he likes to be worshipped like you mean.

Phantom wrote on 26.08.2009 at 10:29
Phantom said:
"Did you look at his pictures when he started Nightwish, he looked like a nerd. "

Yes, I did. And he look way better then now. But that time was different - people considered differnet thing sto be "cool". it is called "fashion".

When I had a look on photos of all "minormen" of NW and of their mainman - it is quite clear who was the good-looking one that time.
___________________________

Actually, the word I was looking for yesterday was "exhibitionist"

mermaid wrote on 26.08.2009 at 12:23
"Yes, I did. And he look way better then now. But that time was different - people considered differnet thing sto be "cool". it is called "fashion"."

I don't think so, he was looking like a nerd, period.

"When I had a look on photos of all "minormen" of NW and of their mainman - it is quite clear who was the good-looking one that time. "

It's something subjective. And I still think he wasn't showing off.
Are Slayers sexy too, mermaid? :))
Tarja is an exhibitionist as well then

Phantom wrote on 26.08.2009 at 14:12
Tarja, naturally, is an exhibitionist.

That is not a negative valuation.

This was, in fact, told by one of our actors - she said that to go on stage you have to be an exhibitionist.
Otherwise you get lost.

mermaid wrote on 26.08.2009 at 16:31
No idea, Phantom,

who are Slayers.

As I said - when young, Maestro looked good.

mermaid wrote on 26.08.2009 at 18:03
i have this strange feeling about Seer -
this comment is No. 498, so let me try this:

He asked us to be on No.500 here, when he will be back.

Let us make 499 and wait and see.

mermaid wrote on 26.08.2009 at 18:05
"Tarja, naturally, is an exhibitionist.

That is not a negative valuation.

This was, in fact, told by one of our actors - she said that to go on stage you have to be an exhibitionist.
Otherwise you get lost."

Of course you have to be at least a bit exhibitionist to go on stage ;) . What I meant (answering to Almagest) is that exhibitionism doesn't always mean "acting sexy" . For example , Tarja is a beautiful woman, perfect for the stage but she doesn't present herself as a sex symbol .

Phantom wrote on 26.08.2009 at 20:12
"who are Slayers.

As I said - when young, Maestro looked good. "

Of course I mean Slayer , the famous trash metal band.

Most of the girls prefer him as he looks now. You have weird tastes :P
Do you think he looks good here? What a geek :D
http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Sarinchen/Tarja%20and%20Tuomas/?action=view¤t=TarjaiTuomas9.jpg
http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/Sarinchen/Tarja%20and%20Tuomas/?action=view¤t=2yyo755.jpg

Phantom wrote on 26.08.2009 at 22:27
@ Mermaid

T.T. hasn't been around in forever, either.

CanuckFan wrote on 26.08.2009 at 22:30
@ CanuckFan

"T.T. hasn't been around in forever, either."

I do remember T.T. (The Tongue) the one who would like to kill us all...

And I was not so surprised that TT dissapeared after feedback he received on that. :-)

But Seer promised to be back after 3 weeks - and he is a Serbian boy.
No idea where he went for vacation, though, but some parts of the world are still not very safe..

mermaid wrote on 27.08.2009 at 10:43
mermaid said: "But Seer promised to be back after 3 weeks - and he is a Serbian boy.
No idea where he went for vacation, though, but some parts of the world are still not very safe.."

Hi mermaid I'm back. I went to Bosnia for vacation. And I fell off the bicycle and broke collar bone. Like Madonna, except that she fell off the horse and not bicycle. I had surgery where 2 metal wires were put in my left shoulder. And my whole torso and left arm are in cast (Gipsverband). :-/ I'm typing right now with one hand, which is not very convinient. Definitely a vacation to remember... Btw, I'm glad all of you fulfilled my wish to see 500 comments here when I come back. ;-)

TheSeer wrote on 03.09.2009 at 01:51
Seer,

I had a bad feeling about you.

"I had surgery where 2 metal wires were put in my left shoulder. And my whole torso and left arm are in cast (Gipsverband)."

And you just fall from a bicycle??? What speed have you been riding it - 100 km/h?

By falling from bicycle the only thing damaged could be your ass ... A SHOULDER?

What did you do???

mermaid wrote on 03.09.2009 at 10:09
well, now I understand why you wanted us to make it up to 500 here - you have staff to read while laying in a bed..

But, Princess and Maestro have been really hardworking this month, so you have things to read, anyway.

Do not miss Narowmindedness article. We had some Gothic discussion there with Alamgest. Him and the girl from Canada - CanuckFan look like interesting people.

mermaid wrote on 03.09.2009 at 10:13
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf

you would better train a bit. Normal reaction time of a driver is 0,75 sec.

mermaid wrote on 03.09.2009 at 10:35
Yep, Tarja doesn't act like a sex symbol - she doesn't appear on stage with naked upper body. :-p

TheSeer: I think you have to thank me for reviving this topic :-D

By the way, I found an interesting website about emo. http://youdontknowemo.tk

It explains that there are actually two different genres called emo. One is emotional hardcore, in short emo, which is essentially hardcore punk with different lyrics - dealing with more personal issues, instead of the political lyrics that were typical for hardcore punk originally. This strain goes back to Rites of Spring.

The other style is called "mall emo" there and it is said to go back to Sunny Day Real Estate. This was not originally a commercial genre, but it is now. Some bands called "emo" nowadays are neither, though. For example Bullet for my Valentine. They are (melodic) metalcore.

The whiny lyrics are only typical for "mall emo". So if anything, Nightwish are trying to profit from the "mall emo" trend. I don't want to give a bad name to emotional hardcore.

Almagest wrote on 08.09.2009 at 20:46
Aaaah, Almagest,

good to see you. Though, I would be surprised if Seer will answer you - he does cheat on us with CanuckFan lately, on her forum...

mermaid wrote on 09.09.2009 at 10:40
Almagest
"Tarja doesn't act like a sex symbol - she doesn't appear on stage with naked upper body. :-p "

err , yeah Tarja naked. That would make her a sex symbol :P

On the other hand, many rock/metal male musicians play without a tshirt (Mark Jansen, Jukka Nevalainen, Apocalyptica...the list goes on and on) XD

The Seer cheat on you, mermaid?

Phantom wrote on 09.09.2009 at 11:15
Well - many would consider Apocalyptica sex symbols, for once. They've never really denied that, either, as far as I know ...

Almagest wrote on 10.09.2009 at 09:20
Drummers don't really count - they have a practical reason to appear with bare upper body. Keyboardist don't really, even if they headbang as hell. :-p

Almagest wrote on 10.09.2009 at 09:23
Almagest said:

"Well - many would consider Apocalyptica sex symbols, for once. They've never really denied that, either, as far as I know ..."
__________________________-
well, those boys look gorgeous!

Eicca is the only blond man I really like (as I mentioned here I am blond (originally) with blue eyes, so I do not like that on men)

and they are even smart - I like to listen to what they say (in interviews) not just to look at them...

mermaid wrote on 10.09.2009 at 10:09
Almagest, so considering Apocalyptica (who are metalheads, if I'm not mistaken) sex symbols is not tremendous as Tuomas playing with his bare chest in a video and in some gigs. XD
Goddammit priest Holopainen should go to hell for his sins XD. After years of nerdiness he's taking his revenge lol.
If I would be a slightly good looking rockstar I wouldn't mind being admired and flirting a bit with fangirls. Would you?

Phantom wrote on 10.09.2009 at 10:58
Phantom: You're verging off, my point was originally that Tuomas has started to act in a narcissistic and conceited way compared to the times when Tarja was still in the band when he was always like "boo-hoo, I feel ugly and I suck". The difference is really striking. He's obviously trying to draw attention to himself. But I'm sure he always wanted to be loved by the girls and hated being a nerd and that's why he identified with the "beast" and the "phantom" etc., and when he didn't get the kind of admiration from Tarja that he longed for I bet that was really eating away at him.

Almagest wrote on 10.09.2009 at 21:47
Of course, the fact that he never got as much as attention as Tarja did must have eaten away at him at least as much, given that he must have thought that he deserves MORE attention, being the creative leader.

Almagest wrote on 10.09.2009 at 21:51
Almagest: "Phantom: You're verging off, my point was originally that Tuomas has started to act in a narcissistic and conceited way compared to the times when Tarja was still in the band when he was always like "boo-hoo, I feel ugly and I suck". The difference is really striking. He's obviously trying to draw attention to himself. But I'm sure he always wanted to be loved by the girls and hated being a nerd and that's why he identified with the "beast" and the "phantom" etc., and when he didn't get the kind of admiration from Tarja that he longed for I bet that was really eating away at him."

No I know what you mean. I was just teasing .
Yep, he started to show off a little bit too much lately.

I think what pissed him off the most was the fact sometimes people and press identified Nightwish as Tarja's band.

Phantom wrote on 11.09.2009 at 11:23
Damn, you agree with me! You've killed the discussion!

18 days to go ... but the "NIGHTWISH singer defends her decision to work on solo album" article has almost as many comments as this one now, and in much shorter time ...

Almagest wrote on 12.09.2009 at 05:58

NIGHTWISH: Tuomas and Anette in Kerrang "We made a mistake with the tourschedule"

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