TARJA TURUNEN Performs "In For A Kill" For The First Time, Video Available + Info On Christmas Album

Comments

1. MFF:
   
   HeHe, I posted the link before you wrote this... I was faster... XD
   
   The song is just AMAZING, Tarja's next album will kick some asses.

   Who? wrote on 02.11.2009 at 19:44

2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
   We all posted the same thing... XD
   
   MFF: we're doing the job for you!!!!w

   Who? wrote on 02.11.2009 at 20:02

3. @ Who?
   I can only agree with you.
   The song is just unbelievable great.
   I hope that the orchestra is playing a big role in the next album.
   Both, "In for a kill" and "Witch-hunt" need an orchestra IMO.
   I waited for this song since the Helloween-concert and when I heard it, I thought: "This sounds like a good song for the next James Bond film". As I like James Bond films a lot, this is the BEST FUCKING COMPLIMENT a song can receive from me.
   
   But I don't think it sounds like a song from Oceanborn.
   More like great film music.
   I'm asking myself whether she composed that song by herself or if the basic idea is from somebody else.
   AMAZING!!!! What Lies Beneath will be breathtaking!!! I can feel it.

   Franziska wrote on 02.11.2009 at 20:21

4. that one is a punch in the face !!

   TT wrote on 02.11.2009 at 20:32

5. I wonder if there will be a bonus disc with an orchestral version of WLB.
   
   I don't mind the idea in general; I'm not stuck on the traditional rock instrumentation. Even if there was not a single electric guitar to be heard on WLB, I wouldn't mind as long as the structure of the pieces is interesting, varied and complex, and the mood dark and dramatic, or uplifting, or ethereal, depending on the piece. To me, the foundation of music is the notes played, the instrumentation is not really relevant for the genre, and Apocalyptica or van Canto (or piano-based black metal songs) have already demonstrated what metal without the conventional instrumentation sounds like.

   Almagest wrote on 02.11.2009 at 20:45

6. i really can't wait when the biggest Tarja' dream come true and her music appears in some movies, oh wait it's Tou's dream.
   
   Can't wait for an album:)

   Isabell wrote on 02.11.2009 at 20:56

7. I can't stop listening to that song, I love it, especially her high notes ;-)
   
   I'd like much orchestra on What lies beneath, but she'll just do everything the way she thinks it's best, and I'm optimistic, since I like each new song by now. I only hope she won't do what she did with enough, because her voice sounded weaker in the studio version than live.
   
   But we'll see. I'm anxious for the new album!

   Earwen wrote on 02.11.2009 at 21:10

8. Vamos Tarja!!!
   Turunen, Turunen Aguante Turunen ?

   Mex wrote on 02.11.2009 at 22:38

9. Earwen said:
   
   "I only hope she won't do what she did with enough, because her voice sounded weaker in the studio version than live."
   
   I totally agree with you. I liked the live version much more than the studio version. Live she used her operatic voice and I really adore that.
   I also think the guitars and drums on My Winter Storm are a little bit to weak for my taste.
   Live they sounded like a great band, but on the album they didn't.
   
   "I'd like much orchestra on What lies beneath, but she'll just do everything the way she thinks it's best, and I'm optimistic, since I like each new song by now."
   
   From song to song she gets better and seems to have more fun. When I first heard MWS I wasn't that blown away like when I listened to the old NW songs for the first time. But the more I heard MWS the more I liked it. I like that she had (and has) the courage to try something new. For me it's a wonderful thing to support an artist that remains true to himself/herself.
   And now every new song from her just blows me away.
   I'm sure I will like WLB more than any Nightwish album, as "Montanas de silencio","If you believe" and the two songs here are the most beautiful in her solo career so far.
   
   ARGHHHH! CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEW ALBUM!!! I WANT IT NOOOOWWW!! :D
   
   Sry for my english if there's a mistake.

   Franziska wrote on 02.11.2009 at 22:50

10. This is really interesting. Orchestra iz amazing and the vocal lines goes from very deep to very high in the same song. :-) But I would really like her to make a little longer songs. At least 5 minutes... :-(

    TheSeer wrote on 02.11.2009 at 23:26

11. Franziska, I agree with everything you wrote (even though I still haven't seen Tarja live - shame on me! - and can only judge the difference between live and studio version based on youtube videos ;-) ).
    It also took some time for me to like MWS - first I listened to some of the songs on the internet and thought "yeah okay, listen to it again some day", but suddenly I found myself buying her album and listening to nothing else.
    
    It's a bit different with the new songs, mostly I like them from the beginning . I hope that doesn't mean they'll be annoying after some time, but I don't think so, because by now I like them more and more each time I listen to them. =)
    
    I don't know if those four songs are indeed her most beautiful ones so far, I guess I'll need some time to decide ;-) But you may be right.
    
    "ARGHHHH! CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEW ALBUM!!! I WANT IT NOOOOWWW!! :D "
    
    I certainly agree with THAT! :D :D
    
    PS: I think you're english is good, but I'm not a native speaker either ;-) but at least we seem to understand each other :D

    Earwen wrote on 02.11.2009 at 23:44

12. Franzisca:
    
    I don't think it sounds like Oceanborn either. The whole rumour about this song being like Nightwish second album, started after a YouTube user commented that In For a Kill sonded as if Tarja "misses the Oveanborn era" because the song had very high notes and stuff like that. Anyway, I'm glad that this is not like Oceanborn, I mean: that album was released 10 years ago... Lady Turunen has to move on, and she's doing it very well... XD

    Who? wrote on 02.11.2009 at 23:45

13. Mex:
    
    ¡¡¡¡EEESSSAAAAAA!!!!
    ¡¡¡¡¡¡VAAMOOO TARRJAAAA LOCCOOOOO!!!!!!
    Es re obvio que sos Argentino igual que yo... XD

    Who? wrote on 02.11.2009 at 23:51

14. Wow, that was amzing !!!

    Corey wrote on 03.11.2009 at 00:11

15. Earwen said:
    "PS: I think you're english is good, but I'm not a native speaker either ;-) but at least we seem to understand each other :D"
    
    And that is the most important thing. I really like your comments on different topics and I agree with you mostly.
    I read the comments on MFF for a few month, because they are really entertaining and also informative. IMO MFF is good to learn english, especially for me, because you have background information that makes the understanding a lot easier.
    They also encourage me to reconsider my opinion on different topics like Anette's and NW's (or should I better say Tuomas' ? :) ) behaviour.
    I hate it when people worship NW or Anette and you cannot talk normally with them about criticism.
    So I slowly avoid to listen or read something that is related to NNW (I haven't heard DPP and thereby Anette's voice for nearly 5 month and I don't regret that :-D )
    But, damn, I disgress from the topic as I often do. :-P
    
    But one thing I have to say to you:
    Go on one of her concerts!!!! It's an event you wont forget, believe me. I went to 3 of her concerts and they were all incredible. They were totally different from each other.
    I never heard somebody live, who hits the notes so damn good like Tarja and at the same time with such a power that blows you away. :D

    Franziska wrote on 03.11.2009 at 00:30

16. TheSeer: Witch-Hunt (full version) is longer than 5 minutes. ;-)
    
    I would love to read and analyse the score for Witch-Hunt, in fact. At 4:20 you can actually hear some clear dissonance caused by the bells, which makes for a very eerie sound. (I'm probably hallucinating but it sounds to me like the "bell-sound" is even there when the bells are not sounding, recalling Arvo Pärt's "tintinnabuli" technique. On the other hand, it does not at all sound crazy that the arranger would make use of a compositional technique that a popular modern Estonian composer developped, when it fits the mood of the music. But then, I've never advanced to such theoretical subtleties really, even though they are fascinating to read about.)
    
    I have to admit I do like the songs more and more the more often I listen, which is a good sign, and I agree that In for a Kill sounds like a James Bond theme song. The range she is using is just crazy. :O
    
    Tarja looks amazing in that dress, it reminds me of her "Henkäys Ikuisuudesta dress". :-)
    
    But again a microphone. Was the orchestra really that loud?
    
    
    I was going to answer in the thread about Maria and The Eternal but this actually belongs here.
    
    ATTENTION: Notice that Tarja doesn't know yet which songs are actually going to be on the album, and that the versions eventually ending up on the album could well be very different!
    
    She said that metal songs and symphonic ballads won't mix on the album, so I suppose that "Witch-Hunt" would stay the way it is, by and large, while "In for a Kill" would probably turn into a guitar-oriented song because it is faster and more powerful. The obvious place where a guitar solo could conceivably be placed is 2:24, possibly starting even earlier. However, the orchestral version would make a great bonus track (especially if this song is going to be a single, it would be a natural addition, although I doubt that a potential single would be revealed so early on). Also, notice that the songs are most probably at least co-written by Tarja.

    Almagest wrote on 03.11.2009 at 01:43

17. @Mex and Who?
    I'm not from Argentina, but I can say:
    Vamo lá Tarja , arrebenta!!! xD

    Moonchild wrote on 03.11.2009 at 10:15

18. The song sounds strange and very difficult to sing due to some extra high - crazy notes ~~ I wonder if she wants to make In for a kill into a metal song! bcause of the fact that the orchestrated parts are very fascinating and atmospheric.... so it is very pitiful if she tries to remove all the symphonies and replaces them by metal sound...
    (In my opinion, she had better mix them skillfully in order to make her album becomes not only powerful but also atmospheric, like NW's old albums)

    Amadxander wrote on 03.11.2009 at 11:59

19. @Franziska: Thank you =) Yes, I really like this page and the comments too, often there are very good discussions going on here =)
    
    You are right, I definitely should go to one of her concerts, but I'm not a fan for a very long time (a bit more than a year) - again: shame on me :D - and when I started looking for live shows I could visit after a while, there weren't any concerts close-by, and I had neither the money nor the time to travel far. I really hope I'll get to see her on the What Lies Beneath tour =)
    
    I can't stop listening to In for a kill! (*replay*) :D

    Earwen wrote on 03.11.2009 at 13:29

20. I hope they will keep this orchestral version, I don't want slobbery solos on this.... too bad Tarja has not the possibility/wish to mix the two worlds in a song....

    TT wrote on 03.11.2009 at 17:15

21. Slobbery? o_O I just want solos, GOOD solos, on whatever instrument, or full orchestra, or even vocal "solos", no stupid and pointless hardcore breakdowns ... I agree that if she makes the "metal" songs conform to the "American metal" mold that she currently enjoys so much, I'd rather do without any electric guitars at all and have ALL the songs with ONLY orchestra ... that would even be original! (Though hard to reproduce live ...)
    
    As I said - with appropriate fierce, dark, and powerful orchestrations you can achieve a "metal" sound even without any "metal" instruments ... just listen to Wagner! Orchestras in symphonic metal needn't sound like Disney at all, Therion have demonstrated that!
    

    Almagest wrote on 03.11.2009 at 18:21

22. As a friend told me a few days ago ... if Wagner lived today, he would be a black metal musician! Well, or somebody like Christofer Johnsson I suppose! ;-) New Therion album has both innovative, unique and dark sounding orchestrations as well as fierce guitar solos! But you can also have chaotic, angular, dissonant ones that sound anything but slobbery!

    Almagest wrote on 03.11.2009 at 18:26

23. Moonchild:
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I laughed my ass off after reading your post... XD
    Yeah, we're all very passionate about Tarja here... XP

    Who? wrote on 03.11.2009 at 19:26

24. wow, awesome song!

    Iron wrote on 03.11.2009 at 21:02

25. Yeah Almagest, slobbery solos played by session musicians.... for the sake of music Tarja should rely on conductors instead to arrange and magnify her music and maybe forget metal stuff, as you can see the result is far better, but the problem is playing live indeed and not losing her metal listeners.... still she needs metal stuff to pack venues but I wouldn't be surprised she will conquer other musical worlds.... I think she's actually living the beginning of her golden age as an artist......

    TT wrote on 03.11.2009 at 23:15

26. What are you talking about? Studio version of "Enough" sounded deliciously mocking, just adding to the mean message of the song, it was genius. I loved it. I love both versions.
    
    And THIS song, this song is superb! Epic, strong, energetic! I can¡t wait to hear the final version!

    Eri wrote on 04.11.2009 at 01:39

27. This is the worst piece of garbage I´ve ever heard. Tarja, instead of music I suggest a new carrere for you. Can you pronounce "do you want fries with that?"? Cos you sure can´t pronounce english words while singin´(or try to sing).

    Wrathchild wrote on 04.11.2009 at 22:57

28. Wrathchild said:
    "Can you pronounce "do you want fries with that?"? Cos you sure can´t pronounce english words while singin´(or try to sing)"
    
    Oh, you know that she pronounced the english words wrong???
    Then you must have understand the lyrics.
    I didn't, so would you please post the lyrics.
    As I'm not that good in understanding lyrics, I'm really curious. :P
    
    OH WAIT.
    You're the most famous Tarja-hater on MFF. So I can't take your comments seriously.
    
    And about that "do you want fries with that?" part.
    That would definetly make her rich, because such a beautiful fries seller (don't know the correct word) you wont find anywhere else. So everybody would come to her (including me) just to buy her fries.
    
    Just go to your friends at the Nightwish Forum.
    
    OH WAIT, AGAIN!
    They are not hating Tarja that much anymore and they start to critize NNW (you know? the support band of your beloved PMS Princess)!!!
    That hurts you, doesn't it??????

    Silent-Force wrote on 05.11.2009 at 00:21

29. Wow, an American person would teach somebody pefect English pronounciation !!! That's funny. I'm speaking about this Down's syndrome sufferer - Wrathchild :)
    

    Meggie wrote on 05.11.2009 at 00:49

30. if a piece of **** like Wrathchild thinks it's garbage, maybe it means it's really really good.....

    TT wrote on 05.11.2009 at 01:10

31. @wrathchild
    
    Oh,it's even worse when you can't WRITE English properly...
    
    So,i suggest you to not follow the "carrere" of an English teacher.
    
    And stop reading Princess' blog.She will ruin any knowledge of English you might (not) have.

    Legeon wrote on 05.11.2009 at 01:30

32. Yeah, like all those incompetent opera singers who can't pronounce ANY language for their life ... indecipherable nonsense ...

    Almagest wrote on 05.11.2009 at 02:42

33. Amadxander: You've heard those powerful deep brass notes in the song? I find it quite obvious that this is the counterpart of heavy guitar riffs in the "rock" version. Still, if you have *only* orchestra parts *and* they are powerful, furious, menacing and dark like that (not Disney-esque), that would even be preferrable to me! But they must be complex and interesting, too!
    
    By the way, I just saw a comment on the YouTube video saying:
    
    "Tarja is good but? she changed.Marcelo changed her. "
    
    Hmm, who is stuck in the past and needs to move on again?

    Almagest wrote on 05.11.2009 at 02:58

34. to Wrathchild: looks like you have some mental issues,go jerk some more,maybe,it will help you to release your anger and you will turn into a normal human being,because you are unbelievably annoying and stupid!
    By the way i have a suggestion to all MFF readers,let's just ignore this brainless creature Wrathchild. I read a lot of comments where people tried to argue and discuss something with this piece of sh*t but it's useless he's or she's too dumb.The point is to annoy shit out of people.
    Ok,but going back to TT. Amazing,that's beautiful! Looks like WLB will be an insane album in a good way! I can't wait for its release! Both Witch Hunt and In for a kill are delicous to listen to! TT keeps getting better and better!
    

    Kostik_from_BLR wrote on 05.11.2009 at 05:55

35. I love what she does, with those x-mas albums. She turns music suited for the most shitty-est part of the year, into a perfect bliss. And the "holidays" are bearable again. That IS a talent.

    DeadAndGone wrote on 05.11.2009 at 22:29

36. I think this would be a killer crew for Tarja if she replaced her current session members. She definitely has a lot of "Beasts" to "Dominate" Solos galore from every department and can give current NW a good run for their money. Holopainen got nothing on Wirman
    
    Drums: Kai Hahto
    Bass: Lauri Porra
    Cello: Max Lilja
    Guitars/Harsh Vocals/Death Growlers: Alexi Laiho, Petri Lindroos & Jari Maenpaa (the Finnish G3)
    Keyboards: Janne Wirman

    Ravisk wrote on 06.11.2009 at 21:19

37. From the same concert, on a show called "Strada": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fx7mtqb-NA
    
    Oh, she's taking care of her make-up alone... no assistant who could do that... what a Diva (not so "down to earth" like someone we know :-D)

    Kiri wrote on 07.11.2009 at 09:53

38. I am sorry,but the direction where this musical wave is heading is not that good.the musical analysis of "in for a kill"reveals that the song has simply...no meaning,I am sorry.really.and the changes between the vocal registers sound like...3 different songs.and that high note has a vibrato like...you can't even hear the note,it's that shaky.I think her next album will be worse.and the singing technique is lately based on chest resonance,and it couldn't be worse for a classical singer than singing on this type of resonance.she's still young,but she sounds worse than a 60 years old opera singer.I am sorry,but with this mixed-up technique,I give her....5-6 more years of singing.
    and if anyone tells me to shut up,cause I don't know a thing,you should all know I have a lot of experience with classical singing.I won't say more.

    someone wrote on 07.11.2009 at 11:07

39. Someone. You don´t have to be sorry for telling the truth. I do it all the time and i´m not sorry.

    Wrathchild wrote on 07.11.2009 at 15:58

40. @someone
    
    Musical analysis of "In for a kill"reveals that the song has simply no meaning? What a smart way to analyse the song, specially if you don't know the lyrics to it :) Oh you try to say that music in the song has no meaning? That's also funny :) Cause it is wrong to judge music by the word "meaning".
    
    "I think her next album will be worse."
    
    Well, based on one song it is also very smart and broad-minded of you to make an opinion about whole album. But well, you are probably just another NW fan trying to pretend a music expert and to write more bosh here :) Your fake sayings "sorry" doesn't work here.
    
    And about other stuff, how funny that you say you are an expert in classical singing, while other prof. singers (who also use classical singing, like Floor and Simone) actually admit that Turunen is a good classical singer and like what she is doing with her voice.
    And Tarja isn't opera singer and by putting her in comparison with opera singer, you prove that you don't know actually much about subject, otherwise you wouldn't make that comparison. Period.
    
    Wrathchild
    You are talking crap here, nothing more, you have just mental problems ;)

    Esme wrote on 07.11.2009 at 21:01

41. only an idiot thinks his truth is the truth.

    TT wrote on 08.11.2009 at 06:04

42. "Musical analysis of "In for a kill"reveals that the song has simply no meaning? What a smart way to analyse the song, specially if you don't know the lyrics to it :) Oh you try to say that music in the song has no meaning? That's also funny :) Cause it is wrong to judge music by the word "meaning"."
    
    musical meaning is a very simple thing.every musical phrase is similar to a proposition.you wouldn't understand.this song is going from a musical theme to another without any meaning.that's what I am trying to say to you.it has no natural flow.and it has a weird modulation(mostly an inflexion) that has no natural place there and some chromatic notes without any meaning.you don't need lyrics to understand a musical act.what?a piano concert has lyrics?no.that's what I am talking about.
    
    "And about other stuff, how funny that you say you are an expert in classical singing, while other prof. singers (who also use classical singing, like Floor and Simone)"
    
    hey...you don't name a professional singer like that.does Simone or Floor obtain some musical degrees that I don't know about?hmmmm......nope.did they studied anything?you know,even 4 or 5 years of a music academy mean nothing.
    even if they are famous and all that,they're not professional sorry.Tuomas is a musician,but not a professional pianist.that's a difference.
    
    "Well, based on one song it is also very smart and broad-minded of you to make an opinion about whole album. But well, you are probably just another NW fan trying to pretend a music expert and to write more bosh here :) Your fake sayings "sorry" doesn't work here."
    
    first,let me tell you a simple thing.this is not the first song I hear of the new material.you're right that you can't judge a future material based of one song.but you can see where the artist is heading from 3 or 4 songs,just looking at the composition.period.maybe if you had XY years of musical studies you could understand what I am saying.
    
    
    "And Tarja isn't opera singer and by putting her in comparison with opera singer, you prove that you don't know actually much about subject, otherwise you wouldn't make that comparison. Period."
    
    classical singing is not that far from opera singing.the same technique is used.I said she sounds like an old voice because changing vocal registres and going from chest(spoken voice) to mask(sinus-resonator voice) can harm a throat totally.and I said she sounds like an opera singer because she uses too much vibrato.a classical voice=a choir voice=a voice without much vibrato.
    for example,speaking of,Christine,from Phantom of the Opera is a classical voice.
    she WAS a classical and clean voice.I say her best performance was "swanheart" from the DVD.THAT was a classical voice.and sounded good.
    
    so,I am waiting for more counter-attacks:)

    someone wrote on 08.11.2009 at 16:33

43. and...forgot to mention....hypothetically speaking....if you and me,were both artists...and I would think that you're going down with your art...do you think I'll EVER tell you?
    ha....right.nobody wants to start a mass craziness.look at the 3 tenors.Carreras is good.....Domingo the same.
    but they could never reach Pavarotti.so,did he ever told them what the whole world knew?
    these things between artists have always been like that.cause if anyone says something against another person from the same industry,you have the whole world scandal
    

    someone wrote on 08.11.2009 at 16:41

44. and....hello?????now this really gets on my nerves...Simone Simmons is a classical singer....
    you mean...WAS.classical singing=natural resonators technique,NOT CHEST VOICE
    
    by the way....have you seen Epica's latest video???
    tell me that's classical singing and I'll cut my lungs out of my chest.you know where it's a bit classical?????in the end,after the modulation.
    in your opinion,maybe if Anette would try to sing on her sinus,you would consider her a classical singer too.
    you know what I call a classical singer?Heidi from Amberian dawn.even her low voices are sung correctly.

    someone wrote on 08.11.2009 at 16:46

45. @ TT
    
    hmmmm....only a TOTALLY idiot thinks another person's truth is not the truth,just because he thinks so,and he brings no arguments.I mean...I did come with something,don't you think?hmmmm.....gotcha.tell me,how many music schools did you graduate to come with such a sweet idea?
    and by the way...let me tell you a sweet story.
    if you all love God...and I say...hey....but he's not that great.you all just jump in my head,right?
    but maybe thousands of people think the same,but they don't dare to say it...because it's about God.
    you know my friend...even God is questionable.
    so I think I made my point
    

    someone wrote on 08.11.2009 at 17:02

46. @someone: You're comparison with the three tenors doesn't fit. Simone, Tarja etc. never sang in the same band, only in the same genre. Don't tell me musicians of the same genre never talk bad about one another.
    
    You claim to know very much about classical singing and music in general. But you won't convince anybody here of your opinion if you keep your I-know-better-attitude. Sentences like "maybe if you had XY years of musical studies you could understand what I am saying." aren't exactly what I call polite. To that, if you think people need a diploma to understand your comments you're obviously commenting on the wrong website.
    
    However, I don't know you. You may know everything about classical singing or you may just be someone who enjoys acting as a wise guy on the internet. I don't know. But I know Tarja studied classical singing for years and that she knows that if she looses her voice she'll lose everything. So I trust her to know what she's doing. To that, I think she sounds amazing singing both In for a kill and Witch Hunt. But of course you can have your opinion.

    Earwen wrote on 08.11.2009 at 22:42

47. someone, so, if I've understood well your drooling words, you say that Tarja is not that great cause she doesn't sing technically exactly like a classical singer and also because her music has no meaning (LOL) .... be it true or not, that makes you a very funny person, isn't it !!!? besides, I have no doubt that Tarja convey much more emotions/feelings than many of your so-called professional classical singers....... anyway, for becoming an artist, Tarja is far better than all those professional musicians that used to get bored and to bore everyone with their cold academicism and rigour, those people are just technicians of music, as a human being, performer, musician, singer and artist, Tarja is so much more......

    TT wrote on 08.11.2009 at 23:45

48. "it has no natural flow.and it has a weird modulation(mostly an inflexion) that has no natural place there and some chromatic notes without any meaning.you don't need lyrics to understand a musical act.what?a piano concert has lyrics?no.that's what I am talking about."
    
    It has no natural flow and has weird modulation for you - but it doesn't make it unnatural or weird as fact or for other people with music studies behind their back.
    And it is a song, not a piano concert, so you need to know lyrics to judge the song in full.
    
    "Simone or Floor obtain some musical degrees that I don't know about?hmmmm......nope.did they studied anything?you know,even 4 or 5 years of a music academy mean nothing. "
    
    Floor for example started studying music at the Dutch Rock Academy in 1999 and entered the conservatory three years later. She studied Musical Theatre and one year of Opera. That's called studying. She is a professional. She proved that on stage for years.
    
    "but you can see where the artist is heading from 3 or 4 songs,just looking at the composition.period.maybe if you had XY years of musical studies you could understand what I am saying. "
    
    You try to pretend that you have XY years of music studies and you are so much professional that you know everything about both music composing and the singing? LOL
    Sorry, if you are such professional, with such ego about yourself, the thing that you surprisingly appear only in this Tarja thread trying to say how bad in every way Tarja is getting, is not truth-like, and don't try to pose it as coincidence. I've already seen people like you on the net. Besides, such puffed-up professionals like you don't have time to go to particular thread to write such things about particular singer- singer who is even not good according to the opinion of such profy like you like you are trying to pretend. Period.:)
    
    
    "classical singing is not that far from opera singing.the same technique is used.I said she sounds like an old voice because changing vocal registres and going from chest(spoken voice) to mask(sinus-resonator voice) can harm a throat totally."
    
    Actually it is not the same thing and comparing opera singers with just classical singers is just out of the league. Real opera singers should be compared with real opera singers, not with anyone who uses classical singing :) And putting Carreras,Domingo and Pavarotti like examples also wrong, it only stress that. They are(were) real oper singers for years. Tarja wasn't.
    
    And don't be naive, singers often speak nasty things about each other. It is a very common thing in musical world.
    
    So, if you are such a professional who has million of years of musical studies behind your back maybe you will show us real evidence of your professionalism- your flawless classical singing and your music cimposing skills. Since you posed yourself as being such professional,more professional than Floor, Simone and etc. even, than you can show us those evidences, can't you?

    Esme wrote on 09.11.2009 at 00:03

49. someone: Well, I haven't studied music, or classical singing, or composition specifically, but Tarja has and her teacher (Marta Blanco, who is a real opera singer, by the way) is, too, and I know she cares a real lot for her voice, so I assume that she knows what she is doing, at least regarding to singing, and those song-writers she is working with are professionals and should know how to write a freaking song. You have neither told us your name, nor your precise credentials (name of degree, university), and your explanations are vague and for the most part, sound plain ridiculous to be honest (I could come up with something like that myself, so they don't prove your expert status). Just like a song such as Ghost Love Score has many changes and (according to Tuomas) felt like several different songs stuck together, so progressive rock songs can even have harsher and unexpected changes; it doesn't mean they have no meaning. It is true that Tarja used to sing in a style strongly influenced by classical singing, and so does Heidi now, but that is not true anymore, even though she still uses the classical technique as a foundation. Tarja doesn't sing in a pure classical style, and this song is not a piece of classical music, anyway, so it doesn't make sense to apply the standards of classical music and singing to them.

    Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:42

50. @someone
    
    Sry, but Tarja is best:P
    
    http://listas.20minutos.es/?do=show&id=31409&c=1257462971
    
    

    Joe wrote on 09.11.2009 at 22:42

51. Oh, and another thing: Tarja was NOT trained as a choir singer (at least since 2001, when she studied in Karlsruhe, not at the Sibelius Academy anymore), but as a chamber music soloist. If you want to hear her natural, full classical voice, listen to her performances in Noche Escandinava II. She uses a LOT of vibrato there.
    
    Also, her friend Marjut would certainly have told something to Tarja when she met up with her (if not to me when we talked) IF there was something wrong with Tarja's use of her voice.

    Almagest wrote on 09.11.2009 at 23:02

52. someone: If you are truly concerned about Tarja's voice and afraid that she might damage or ruin it, you should contact her teacher or her husband, your comments here will accomplish absolutely nothing because she does not read them.
    
    http://www.martablanco.com.ar
    
    http://www.tarjaturunen.com/contact.php?Id=en

    Almagest wrote on 10.11.2009 at 19:33

53. Oh, and as for the argument about composition ... most death metal compositions, and I think mathcore ones, too, feature abrupt changes all the time. Even classical compositions contain changes that come unannounced and surprising. The more avant-garde, the more surprising ... I don't think even with the most profound compositional knowledge, you could predict every such change, because then the creative content of the music would be essentially zero ... and usually people find predictable music bad, not unpredictable music.

    Almagest wrote on 10.11.2009 at 23:08

54. @someone
    
    "it has no natural flow.and it has a weird modulation(mostly an inflexion) that has no natural place there and some chromatic notes without any meaning"
    
    Being a NW fan you might be surprised with what i'm going to say...There are people that like the element of surprise!There are people that hate expected melodies and motifs that go all around again and again...
    Shocking huh?
    
    You know,some of the greatest metal albums and songs had no natural flow or expected melodies...
    For example,would anyone predict what the next melody would be in the "Seventh Son of A Seventh Son"(the song)?
    
    ".but you can see where the artist is heading from 3 or 4 songs,just looking at the composition.period"
    
    No you can't.Especially if these 3 or 4 songs are just crappy recordings of live performances.And no,in an album that may contain 10-15 songs you can't understand if the album will be "crappy" or not.

    Legeon wrote on 11.11.2009 at 16:18

55. Let's not forget that Tarja said to a fan at MFVF that she still doesn't know if "In for a Kill" and "Witch-Hunt" are going to be on WLB, and even if they will be, the final versions might be quite different (and in the case of "In for a Kill", the final version will almost certainly be entirely different, at least regarding instrumental arrangement).

    Almagest wrote on 13.11.2009 at 16:37

56. First of all, I agree with most of you guys here: this song is brilliant! And I also think the next album is quite promissing, from what we're able to see from the new songs in her live performances. Of course, like some said here, all these new songs might not apear in the new album and even apearing they might be changed but still... Tarja has been improving day by day so a great next album will not be a surprise at all, on the contrary, it's what's everyone's expecting.
    
    As for the comparison with Oceanborn... I also don't find it similar as well as I don't think Tarja wants to be some sort of the former NW copycat.
    
    To @someone... well, you talk, talk, talk but... you say nothing in concrete as well as you show no prove of what you say, and obviously, what you said can be said by anyone that knows nothing about music and specially classical music. You really just look like some showing off trying hard to pretend to know a lot about music, more then musisians themselves. I've studic music and I can say that I don't see anything wrong with Tarja's voice as well as I don't think she's harming her voice in any way... you know, when you practice and actually know something about music and chant you can sing in a way that your voice can't be harmed... Oh, but of course, with all your knolege about music you know that already... you just forgot to say it, right? (irony)
    

    Miellyn wrote on 15.11.2009 at 22:20

57. @Miellyn
    
    Indeed,Tarja doesn't want to sound like NW...She hasn't said that she wants to make music similar to NW,but the sad thing is that everyone compares her music with NW's music...
    

    Legeon wrote on 16.11.2009 at 00:16

58. @Legeon
    
    "(...) but the sad thing is that everyone compares her music with NW's music..."
    
    
    I'm afraid that will go on happening for a long period of time. Tarja was in NW for 10 years, that's how she got "popular" (for the lack of a better word, forgive me, it's the hour! :p), and most people that like her now are old NW fans (even though she does has new fans as well)... in a way we all know that most of the fans would love to see Tarja back in NW or, like I read already, working with Tuomas in her solo carrear for one single reason: people loved the team Tarja-Nightwish and, as you must very well know, it is hard to let go of something you love as it is hard to accept the end of something you like so much.
    
    Anyway, I do think and hope that, with time, people will learn to accept that there's no more Tarja in NW and also learn to see Tarja as the great solo artist she is with not so many comparisons (even though I think they will always exist).
    
    

    Miellyn wrote on 16.11.2009 at 00:57

59. very nice music ...excelent..

    marianela from chile, sothamerica wrote on 16.11.2009 at 17:05

60. @Miellyn
    
    I would really confess you that I don't want Tarja to return to NW and I think she doesn't want as well :). I actualy liked Tarja solo stuff a lot cause it was different from NW, I liked that it was different and I never saw problem with it .
    I'm not New NW fan by the way, never was, never will be :)

    Diana wrote on 16.11.2009 at 17:56

61. Since we already know Tuomas's style and as the music he writes nowadays doesn't fit Tarja's voice that much anymore anyway, I'd say it is rather pointless for them to co-operate again. Co-operations with other musicians, from the metal scene or not, would be much more interesting. I confess having preferences, and have stated before to do so, and some kinds of music I really do not care to hear with Tarja, both because I do not enjoy them and because I find that they do not fit her at all.
    
    Given that her voice and style is sophisticated, rather technical, elegant, bombastic, dramatic, powerful and classically influenced, it makes sense for her music to be so, as well. One aspect I definitely enjoy about "In for a Kill" is the pomp and glory projected by her voice (and the whole song), which really reminds me of Oceanborn. But only that general impression; otherwise the music is not particularly similar.

    Almagest wrote on 16.11.2009 at 18:50

62. @someone: I partially agree with you and I partially don't. I'm not a super-master of classical singing, but I've been studying it for about 4 years now and I can somehow relate to what you said when stating the fact Tarja cannot be compared to an opera singer. But I don't even think she wants that, because as someone else said already, she is actually a lieder&chamber music major. You might say that even in her own field and territory (chamber music, I mean), she can easily be surpassed by renown classical singers and it's true. Kiri te Kanawa singing Schubert gives me chills all over my spine and Karita Mattila or Soile Isokoski singing Finnish songs has the same effect on me. But Tarja chose to stay in the atmospheric/metal(?) field and I think she did best, since there aren't so many competitors with the same vocal style as her in this domain, and the other operatic metal singers, well, I'd rather keep quiet about them (including Simone Simons or Floor - actually, the main thing I admire about Floor is not her classical training, but her versatility and omogenous registers - she can go from operatic-ish singing to a raspy, full chest voice without much effort; and one of the very few classical singers in metal that I really find credible and very well prepared is Lori Lewis).
    So, as I was saying, there's no point in comparing Tarja to Gheorghiu, Te Kanawa or Freni; she would clearly be in disadvantage, no matter how dramatic/expressive/elegant she is. Her voice is not for opera. But let's take Sarah Brightman for example - she is also in some sort of 'crossover' style and I personally find her more daring than Tarja - she sang La Wally, Les Filles de Cadix etc. Those songs are a treat when sung by Gheorghiu/Damrau, yet Sarah still gave it a try, even though I personally find her native voice and particularities weaker than Tarja's, even though she does have a better technique and position.
    
    All this being said, it's hard to say whether Tarja is going to lose her voice or harm it. Now or in 10 years. Because, indeed, just like you said, she has some rough passages in this song; she has to alternate the chest resonators with the frontal and sinusoidal ones, and she has to do it with agility. That doesn't mean she'll only perform this song and nothing else for her whole life, 5 hours a day. So if she chooses to protect her voice and not do such "acrobatics" so often, I think it's gonna be fine.
    Concerning the song itself, there will of course be shared opinions. I as well find some sort of discontinuity, I'm not saying it's meaningless, but it just doesn't have that "magic combination" needed to make me love it. Whether it's gonna be better or worse than MWS, it's to be seen. I so far am not fond of either of them, but I just wanted to drop by and throw my...erm, thousand cents about her voice and the "she's not an opera singer!!" issue. Well she's not, and there's nothing bad about it.

    Cristabel wrote on 17.11.2009 at 21:56

63. The bringing up issue about comparison Tarja with opera singers is really silly for everyone who is supposed to have some music education - cause Tarja never was real opera singer and never said she was real opera singer. Real opera singers should be compared with real opera singers, as some smart people here already said.
    She is just classical-trained singer.
    So when people try to compare Tarja with real opera singer and say" she is no opera singer", they do really useless comparsion with really silly effort as, duh, she is not and she knows that and said that, so you are proving nothing here :)
    
    The loss of voice for a singer can happen in one minute sometimes, and even medics sometimes can't explain some cases - singing voice depends on so many factors, but also a lot on physical health, endocrine profile, aging and many other factors.
    Not to say every singer often risks to loose his or her voice after a regular cold.
    Since Tarja uses her singing technique wisely and in proper "doses", and she is real professional, she would maintain her voice nicely in future I think :) As for such accidents I mentioned higher is no guarantee - for any singer.
    Besides, she can always consult her former singing teacher, who as I understood, is really good :)
    
    But as for her comparison with Sarah Brightman, Brightman, though using classical singing technique, is more pop, she spent many years in musical theatre, even started in pop dance band, many of her albums have more pop-elements and more pop orientation overall :) All in all she is more mainstream artist. She is good in that, no doubt.
    Besides, her voice is weaker and less dramatic. I wouldn't call it daring, although it is pleasent, nice and sweet and she is confident with it.
    
    The song itself really has good flow, I don't see any discontinuity, it is quite atmospheric, and she copes with it quite good, though second song has more bombastic feeling in it and has more challenge ;)

    Luthien wrote on 17.11.2009 at 23:17

64. @Luthien:
    Well yes, what I actually meant was that Sarah's choice regarding her repertoire is pretty daring; not the voice itself. I mean, I gave the example of Catalani's "La Wally", which has been performed by her, she also sang "Brindisi" and "O mio babbino caro" - of course, those aren't such difficult arias, but they're opera arias nonetheless. "Les Filles de Cadix" is quite a difficult piece, in which you gotta use your middle register as well as your head one and you must have great agilities and breathing support. Of course she has lots, lots of mainstream songs as well, but that hasn't kept her from experimenting with actual opera music as well.

    Cristabel wrote on 18.11.2009 at 21:58

65. Tarja has great voice but it's too "cold" for my taste. That's why I have never actually liked it. I can listen to her singing but liking... no. :/
    
    Same with her first solo album. The songs were a bit boring, in my opinion...
    
    Anyways, I wish her all the best and good luck. :)

    Orthos wrote on 19.11.2009 at 12:22

66. @Cristabel
    I know Brightman did real opera arias, but still not so much, comparing to her general more poppy repertoire. Still, she is not only one who does such kind of repertoire, I mean mixing some opera stuff with other and experimenting - Emma Shapplin does that, Sissel, Hayley Westenra, etc. :) I like that and enjoy listening to that, but I wouldn't call it very daring, since it is already pretty common feature for classical crossover singers to do such music mixing.
    
    Still Brightman's voice in singing some real opera arias live adjusts not so good and it was in particular heard while she performed with real opera singer like José Carreras ( I mean really top level singer), which I heard - probably she shouldn't have sung in the mic, cause he wasn't singing with mic (but then she wouldn't have been heard). Or she should have sung with some "simpler" opera singer, not so powerful as Carreras.
    Still when she does more easy pop crossover songs singing more easy her parts and uses her pop a lot, which don't require such power and technique, she does really adequate and great.:) Specially her studio stuff.

    Luthien wrote on 19.11.2009 at 20:13

67. I like her new songs, they are awesome!
    Tarja rules!

    Barbara wrote on 19.11.2009 at 20:13