NIGHTWISH Singer With THE RASMUS: Behind-The-Scenes Footage From 'October and April' Video

Comments

1. GREAT & beautiful

   GREAT wrote on 21.11.2009 at 14:04

2. It's all CGI...what a surprise. :-P
   
   Btw, this guy has the single, most retarded haircut, in the known universe.

   DeadAndGone wrote on 21.11.2009 at 14:17

3. Well, she doesn't sound too bad here. This is the kind of music she should stick to: pointless music for a not bad but pointless voice.

   itneverstops wrote on 21.11.2009 at 15:44

4. Ugly

   ethe wrote on 21.11.2009 at 20:39

5. Beautiful!

   Alucard wrote on 22.11.2009 at 09:06

6. Nice but nothing to do with metal.

   Frame wrote on 22.11.2009 at 10:24

7. Lauri looks far younger than she, she looks like she is his mother or aunt.
   The clip was very boring, they could use some better idea than just walking alll the time.

   Therion wrote on 22.11.2009 at 16:10

8. I wonder what PETA thinks of Lauri's hairstyle...

   Christina wrote on 22.11.2009 at 18:44

9. Crapnette looks like an old retired pornstar... and is really stupid to make public the "moking of" of a video that's all about walking, make up and a green screen...
   Anyway this is the kind of music Chucky Olzon fits better in... which is lame... XD

   Who? wrote on 22.11.2009 at 19:28

10. "We have travelled to more than 60 countries, from India to Siberia"
    
    Fix up your geography people, Siberia is not a country, lol
    
    
    Video is pretty nothing special, boring as the video clip itself. anette looks pretty old in it and Lauri looks pretty emo.
    
    

    SW wrote on 22.11.2009 at 20:16

11. What a bore.

    euro wrote on 22.11.2009 at 20:16

12. Okay, when I visited this site today for the first time at a friends home, my friend warned me not to watch this video, since it would be horrible anyway. And my friend was right.
    God, how not original can you be? Normally people who don't have money to spend on a clip, make clips like these..
    
    Too bad for the Rasmus. They do have so much better songs and clips..
    
    But Anette fits this better then Nightwish. I've also been told that she has a personal assistant. Well, I hope that this assistant isn't responsible for her clothes and make up, because then that person isn't worth the money.. Or she really has an old and used or messed up face for someone who is almost 40..
    
    I´ve also been told that there is a change that I´ll get bashed because of this comment. So just for you to know, it´s my opinion, not yours. (Although you may agree with it, ain´t I sweet...)

    Klaplopert. wrote on 23.11.2009 at 00:53

13. "...black hair was only for Nightwish..hahaha"
    I wonder if TuomAss and his crew like this kind of comment.. ;D

    Moonchild wrote on 23.11.2009 at 08:52

14. @ Moonchild
    
    ""...black hair was only for Nightwish..hahaha"
    I wonder if TuomAss and his crew like this kind of comment.. ;D"
    
    Well, I bet they don't mind it since they had asked Anette did she want to dye her hair when she joined Nightwish. :)

    Crystalium wrote on 23.11.2009 at 14:55

15. @moonchild
    
    "it was only for Nightwish"
    
    So,has she left the band or something?Because as far as i can see,she's blond now...And she has been like that since half the DPP tour.
    
    So,the line "it was only for Nightwish" meant "it was only for making people believe that i suit for Nightwish...same with the emo-gothic clothing and the super-cute behavior".

    Legeon wrote on 23.11.2009 at 15:04

16. 'Hello, Anette,
    
    I was watching today the Rasmus video of October and April, and in the 'making of' you are featured as well, and I felt this urge to write to you, something I actually wanted to do for quite a while now. I wanted to tell you why I can't support you any more.
    
    It's funny, but one of the things that made me realise how MUCH things have changed was your line saying that you're Pippi Longstocking and I remembered when Tuomas used to say it and it sounded credible. Now it just sounds hilarious. When you said that "if someone is mocked or having problems, you'll be there fighting" my instant thought was - "wow, I thought she'll be shopping, having a massage or eating something". Because Anette, sadly, this is the image that you have build for yourself - with you constant talking about clothes, every report about going to the gym, every visit to a restorant etc.
    
    It's really a funny thing how the fairy, dreamy, magical world of Nightwish suddenly was conquered by your world, in which triviality and drowing into everyday routine is not simply your reality, but it is something that you expose constantly as who you are. You are like the total opposite of NW, being drowned so much into the material world, so much attention seeking, so exposed. And before you tell me that it is "your personal
    blog", answer me this - do you think that anyone will be reading your blog, if you were not NW's lead singer? I'm sorry to be blant, but do you believe you are that interesting on your own? And it is really a sad thing that now when NW are going for a media silence, people who always are hungry for news about NW - will have mainly your blog. Sadly for two years NW will be associated with shopping and spa.
    
    I'm perfectly aware that you are your own master, and you have said numerous times that NW is a job and a business for you, but still you are the face of this band, music in the eyes of the people does not have working hours, it's a passion, and when you are so determined to build such image of yourself, it's inevitable to reflect to the perception of the people of the band.
    
    While the boys have tried to convince people that you are such a big professionalist, especially Tuomas has said many many times how you are a perfectionist, how you try to give a 100% and more, and people actually believed that. Even in the beginning of this year there were many comments in the forums how you work really hard to improve all the time, people were convinced that you are rehearsing all the time, working with your voice coach, trying new technics etc. And people RESPECTED that. I have a reaaaaally hard time understanding why you try so hard now to destroy this image? Why you try to convince everyone that your main priorities and interests are clothes, gym and going to the hairdresser? Are you aware how UNPROFESSIONAL you look when you talk about the working process in connection to you new album? For God's sake, you are like a factory for songs! One song per day! It really seams that your album can be ready for like a month! In fact I was hoping that it'll be out before Christmass!
    
    It's sad that actually if there is not a note on your blog saying that you're a singer, and if someone doesn't know that you are in NW - it will be really hard to realise that you actually are involved with music! Even when you talk about music, for example when you attended the Black Silk premiere, when you supposedly were very deeply moved - the fisrt half of your post was about your visit to the hairdresser!
    So, I'm fully aware that there's a good chance that you will skip my post, as you said that you don't like and you don't listen to critiques. Still I want to make clear that I really don't want to offend you or to insult you, I just wanted to express my thoughts and feelings. The fact is that I used to like you a lot, I used to defend you a lot, I loved your voice (I still do), but now it's very hard for me to think for you in terms of music. You are right - you have built your own image, but it's not my favorite.'
    
    long but i alost cried
    

    Isabell wrote on 23.11.2009 at 16:50

17. Isabell
    
    Very good post.I don't know what the chances are she'll read it,but i would like to say that you expressed what most old Nightwish fans feel.I say old,because we are not any more and you just expressed one of the reasons.
    
    I know that this band's advantage is the music,and that i shouldn't be distracted and influenced by one member's behavior,especially when that member has no contribution to the music produced,but Anette Olzon is the front face of this band.No matter how much we don't like it,it's the undeniably truth.When someone first listens to the band,the first thing he/she mentions is the singer,not the keyboard player.
    
    And now,according to the image the front face of the band wants to put on,this is a band concerned about clothing and money.
    
    Anette should stop thinking as an individual.Of course she's just a woman and of course she can have her own blog and write whatever she wants,but she should not forget what she represents.No matter how much she wants it,her solo career hasn't started yet and she still remains the front face of this metal band called Nightwish,and she should start thinking about that and caring about the band's image and not just hers.
    
    
    I tried really hard to like her,and even after seeing a hideous show i still went on trying.But after all this noise,and especially after seeing this blog i don't have the urge to try anymore.
    Frankly,i don't know if she really is the kind of person she seems to be from her blog or she just uses it as a medium to be more attractive to teenage fans.
    If it's the second,she should stop it because she ruins the image of a metal band.She's not an individual.Well,she is an individual,but she didn't become famous as an individual,she became famous through a band she should behave as a member of a metal band.
    if it's the first,then i'm terribly sorry for her.
    
    Many people here accuse us of not having any lives and spending our time here,but the truth is that we do meaningful things.And we also do like coming here and discussing matters about our once favorite band.But after the computer's turned off,out thoughts about Anette or Tuomas are off too-we don't think about them because we have to deal with real life,a life with some more meaning that just shopping and going to the gym and having coffee breaks.
    
    Anette,you say that you don't write deeper things because you know that people will misunderstand whatever you say and will try to make a fool out of you.
    You have messed things up-people don't laugh at your "deeper" thoughts because they misunderstand you,they laugh because when you spend all your time trying to put on the image of a fashion victim and of a meaningless life,no one takes you serious when you try to say more serious things.
    
    If you had started your blog by writing serious stuff and keeping it that way,no one would misunderstand you now.

    Legeon wrote on 23.11.2009 at 18:33

18. Sorry Isabell,i just realized you didn't write that,it was this girl on Anette's blog.
    
    Still,thanks for posting!

    Legeon wrote on 23.11.2009 at 18:40

19. @Isabel: You put it perfectly into words why a lot of the metalheads (at least in the scene here in Austria) despise Anette and see her as "the pop princess", even those who liked her when she started in NW. Unfortunately though, I guess she'll neither read all of your comment (I assume you posted it in your blog since you write about her not allowing it), nor will she let it pass through so others might read it there. As you said yourself, she doesn't like being critisized, even going as far as manually checking every single comment on her blog before she lets them appear - what a fine little censor she is. Luckily though, you copied it to here, so at least here, people will read it - and I'm sure a lot of them will agree with you :)

    Morpheus wrote on 23.11.2009 at 19:15

20. "Well, I bet they don't mind it since they had asked Anette did she want to dye her hair when she joined Nightwish. :)"
    
    Actually, it was said in some interview that it was something like the decision of all of them, not Anette's only, but it came from band's side and she agreed :) At the beginning they didn't want to have blonde singer obviously, though, since she was going to change to blonde later anyway like she did, they could leave her like that from the start, just to be honest, cause now it looks like joke, like then it was an attempt to fit her in, by dying her hair black!!!! LOL
    
    @Isabell
    
    Bravo, what a post you picked from her fans! Really top thing. Thanks! But you know what, I've seen this attitude from her fans, real loyal fans, popping up more and more often, cause many of them start to feel that huge disappointment by her actions.
    
    Oh, the video is funny, but boring and Anette has overdone her image of "cute sweet girl on guard for humanity's love, peace and etc." which doesn't comply both with her looks, with her actual doings and hobbies :)

    Iris wrote on 23.11.2009 at 19:24

21. Awful boring video for really boring video clip . don't like that.

    Note wrote on 23.11.2009 at 19:24

22. ok make it clear i didn't write this, sorry i should have written it earlier.

    Isabell wrote on 23.11.2009 at 21:38

23. You know, I remember that when Anette was new, people first got to know her with long black hair. When people posted an old photo of her from her time with Alyson Avenue, where she had short blond hair, most other people defended her and appreciated her willingness to adapt to her new job - up to a point. Even I (who at that time was already feeling very uncomfortable with the band's new music and image, evident from the promo pictures already) felt an urge to be fair and point out that Tarja wasn't born in a corset either (though I don't remember anymore if I actually did). Everyone assumed naturally that she would stick to that style.
    
    Later, she changed her look to ... short blond hair. Nobody seemed to be shocked or alienated. I didn't understand that.
    
    Seems she had to do a lot more than that for people to get the same impression as I had: that there was a clash of cultures in the band.
    
    So Anette doesn't want to give up her individuality and her personal style for the band. No compromises. OK, I get it. She says she wants to be loyal to herself. Fine. But why, then, does she join a band that doesn't fit her style and everything else about her in the first place?
    
    The only reason left is, indeed, money.
    
    But still, I have the distinct impression that Anette is simply a reflection of the band's general problems. That it is essentially Tuomas's ego-trip. That he is the original diva (the attitude Anette - fittingly - simply mirrors). That the others are "glorified session musicians", as someone on YouTube has put it so aptly. That what Tuomas wrote in the letter is more his own story than anything else. Music is not the first priority in Nightwish anymore. Everyone in Nightwish is co-dependent and so is the population of the whole province of North Karelia, apparently. The members' loyalty to the band is more than that of a prisoner to his prison. And the only one who managed to break out from this prison and embark on a successful solo career that allows her economic independence is, ironically, the one who was forced out of the prison by violence ...

    Almagest wrote on 24.11.2009 at 01:22

24. Still ugly

    ethe wrote on 24.11.2009 at 18:27

25. Lauri is sooooooo beautiful. He is the best singer in the world.

    Erdgeist wrote on 24.11.2009 at 20:14

26. what a surprise ... i comment on one news article... full of hate
    i come on this article and again ITS FULL OF HATE!!
    
    why hate!??
    people literally hate this woman (and other people too) for absolutely no reason whatsoever
    
    perhaps i should just become like legeon and just dam everything
    
    i never see any
    
    "great vid, i love this band thanks for posting"
    or
    "really enjoyed this hope i see them live!"
    
    its always "shes a total bitch i hate her hope she dieeeees"
    etc (ok thats exaggerated but the same idea stands"

    Jack UK wrote on 24.11.2009 at 20:25

27. @Jack UK
    
    "perhaps i should just become like legeon and just dam everything "
    
    Actually you're wrong.I point out positives AND negatives,and in this case,i clearly have nothing positive for Anette.
    
    My mind isn't full of negativity.Only for the things that i don't like and don't approve.
    
    For example,you could ask me by opinion about Iron Maiden,and i would flood you with positive things.But why should i post positive things for Anette since i don't find any?

    Legeon wrote on 24.11.2009 at 20:58

28. @Almagest: Although I do not generally feel like you do about Anette/New Nightwish, I must agree you have a very good point there. It seems like Nightwish are pushing themselves more and more to satisfy the audience instead of trying to 'impose' themselves to the listeners without caring whether they're gonna like it or not. I actually think it started with "Once", when the media attention they started getting got greater and greater. The composition/performances up to "Wishmaster" (included) were definitely their most genuine ones, when they used to do such completely personal things (I'm especially referring to Tuomas), never caring about the fact many people thought their music was gay or too soft of fantasy-oriented for a metal band. "Century Child" was probably the most personal album they've ever done and I think that's why there are people saying either that it's their best or the most shitty one.
    
    With "Once" though, things took off, they started doing high budget things, overloading the music with an orchestra and choir from abroad, hitting the charts with mainstream tracks as well (I personally don't find Nemo any better than Amaranth, on that point) and simply raising up the standards and the whole concept of an album. I personally think the change was pretty edgy, definitely not bad though, not musically bad. But they've started getting more and more dependent of the audience, thinking about the result more than the reason for doing the music. And I think it's pretty much the same with "Dark Passion Play", maybe even more accentuated, since they needed to prove they could also succeed with a different singer.
    Anyhow, about the image of the "prisoner devoted to his prison", the prison, in this case, is the audience and the constantly high expectations from them, the impossibility of failing them, the image they have to keep of themselves, since their importance in the rock/metal scene is essential nowadays. They're not the tiny band from the tiny city anymore. And from the point they've started doing music for the masses (>Once), I think this started to feel like a compulsory thing to them.
    Anyhow, I wouldn't say they don't enjoy their music anymore. The fact that Tuomas seems to be so fond of "The Poet" and his cover of Michael Nyman...you don't do a cover and insist to release it/play it(they used to do a bit in the end of The Islander+using it as an outro) if you really don't care about it. It's just that now they have to DO music and DELIVER it at high standards.
    
    And about Tarja being freed from the prison, I think in her case the prison was exactly this, being in a band with such high expectations from the audience, with such "strong" personalities, with constant need to please, always in the middle of the stress and pressure. I'm sure all of them felt that, but probably Tarja, having a harder time, did things that the guys might have misinterpreted and so the sacking occured. Anyhow, I still think Tarja doesn't actually do what she truly loves - but she does things in a way that's easier and less stressful for her - fewer concerts, smaller venues, not as many countries to play in, shorter tour legs. Now she also has expectations to fulfill, because she's not the Tarja of some opera choir or in a religious one, but she's Tarja Turunen, expected to do heavy music (which we clearly know she doesn't enjoy as much as classical one - that doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy it at all!), so she still has to give the audience what they want, but on a different level, less solicitant, less "grand" and more pleasant for her.

    Cristabel wrote on 24.11.2009 at 21:29

29. I checked agian... still ugly

    ethe wrote on 25.11.2009 at 00:50

30. @ethe
    
    +100

    Isabell wrote on 25.11.2009 at 15:00

31. @Jack UK
    
    Coz I really think that stupidity should be punished.

    Isabell wrote on 25.11.2009 at 15:24

32. @ Isabell: thanks for copying the comment, was this one actually published on her blog?
    
    This girl just said EXACTLY what I feel. In the beginning I was supporting Anette, found her very charming and approacable when she joined Nightwish but I am not sure what happened, she somehow just woke up too fast and too loud and turned into something I do not like at all anymore, at least not for Nightwish. The mystery of the band is gone all of a sudden and I find that such a shame. I like her as a person, just not as a frontwoman of Nightwish.
    

    Empathica wrote on 25.11.2009 at 18:16

33. @legeon
    
    then if you dont like nightwish then why the hell bother commenting?

    Jack UK wrote on 25.11.2009 at 21:06

34. Empathica yes it was, stil is. I think she did not wake up, she was like that from the beginning but no one could listen or read about it coz she hadn't blog yet.

    Isabell wrote on 25.11.2009 at 21:27

35. Empathica yes it was, stil is. I think she did not wake up, she was like that from the beginning but no one could listen or read about it coz she hadn't blog yet.

    Isabell wrote on 25.11.2009 at 21:27

36. Isabell. What if Anette mentioned over and over again that she´s the nightwish singer in her blog? Imagine the tarjatalibans comments on this forum! " She´s boasting ´bout being the nightwish singer everyday". Her blog is her own . Sometimes when people askes her about nightwish she generally answers them. But if she´d began to answer all questions about nightwish it would turn into a nightwish Q&A blog. I don´t believe neither nightwish or she wants that.

    Wrathchild wrote on 26.11.2009 at 03:47

37. Wrathchild i don't expect from her to write only about NW coz she probably don't even contact with guys now. But i can expect smth more mature from almost 40years old woman, remember that she started from description and pictures of sandwiches so she really didn't know what to write about.

    Isabell wrote on 26.11.2009 at 12:01

38. @ Isabell
    
    "Wrathchild i don't expect from her to write only about NW coz she probably don't even contact with guys now."
    
    What makes you believe that? o_O

    Crystalium wrote on 26.11.2009 at 13:42

39. @wrathchild
    
    There's a difference between "saying" you're the singer of Nightwish than actually "behaving" like the singer of Nightwish.
    
    We don't want her to tell every day that she's the singer,we want her to start behaving like she's the singer of a band.

    Legeon wrote on 26.11.2009 at 15:53

40. @isabell: "I think she did not wake up, she was like that from the beginning but no one could listen or read about it coz she hadn't blog yet."
    
    I agree. I had a feeling she's like that from the beginning, but I wasn't completely sure. Now I know that I was right:
    
    A woman's nails CAN tell about her persona.

    ethe wrote on 26.11.2009 at 15:59

41. @Izabell
    
    I think she was like that from the option of caring only about clothing,whining all the time about how tired she is(she said that herself),and generally having no depth or culture.
    What she lacked,was money to buy that stuff and people to listen to her.
    
    And then happened the very thing that makes people like her express themselves.Money and fame.
    
    Don't forget that she left her husband and her son when she had just gained Nightwish.At the time,she hadn't that much money or blogs.
    Or any personal opinion,actually.I recall her saying this,which is still in her biography on Nightwish' official page:
    
    "Equipment:
    Whatever microphone and in-ear system the NW-crew fix for me."

    Legeon wrote on 26.11.2009 at 16:31

42. @ethe
    
    I agree :)
    
    Men may not get that and actually think that it's a shallow way to think of a person,but women call understand another woman from her nails.

    Legeon wrote on 26.11.2009 at 16:33

43. Crystalium, well she doesn't take part in writing process, she is focus at her solo CD. She doesn't need to contact with them and they with her. Besides when she had called Tuo she mentioned about it and she has done it once so far.

    Isabell wrote on 26.11.2009 at 17:16

44. Bad video, cause it doesn't show them at best option, Anette looks really bad here, , Lauri looks better though, but kinda emo, lol :) Stil he is cuter.
    
    Isabell, great post, this person which wrote this post is right, Anette just doesn't act like singer, not to say like singer of such band as NW. Personally if you look at her ridiculous blog, you can't tell that this is blog of a singer of famous metal band or even of somebody who is in music, unless you already know that she is a singer, part of the band, etc. It looks like blog of 13-16 teenage girl with her top interests being - shopping, clothes, hair, nail polish :(
    And yes, NW made her famous, without NW nobody would ever pay attention to her blog, but she fills it with some crap and she does it almost every day, on regular basis! And she is face of band! She is sort of represent it! Like this !!!!! Disgusting.
    
    "The mystery of the band is gone all of a sudden and I find that such a shame."
    
    I SO agree with you. And it was something that NW was always about-something mysterious and grand, some graceful class in it. And now...it is gone. It's a shame and great pain. And I liked Anette before really much until she started her blog and started it like that, and started acting like...like NW is not really her priority, just a band thanks to which she got famous very fast and thanks to which she can get money to buy piles of clothes and start asap her solo projects! I also don't like her as frontwoman of NW anymore!

    Zoe wrote on 26.11.2009 at 18:12

45. Lame video!
    It is like they filmed the video in the way to show Anette so old and fat! And Lauri, ok, he looks better, but also kinda strange!

    Percy wrote on 26.11.2009 at 18:14

46. @Zoe: I bet everything I own that NW is just that for Anette - a job where she can get the money she needs for all her ridiculous shopping sprees, so she can show off that she's wearing Gucci and whatnot. I doubt NW is her priority, it's a job for her that fills her wallet and gives her the fame she needs to make a solo album - and I bet (again) that this is what she has been aiming for when she joined NW - a band to get famous with, so she can get started with her solo crap, a chance she didn't have before she joined NW because no one knew or cared who she was. Disgusting, really.

    Morpheus wrote on 26.11.2009 at 21:15

47. "she has been aiming for when she joined NW - a band to get famous with" said Morpheus
    
    Not exactly, don't forget that at the beginning she knews nothing about NW, but i'm quite sure that she figured it out after some gigs, that it's big chance for her.

    Isabell wrote on 26.11.2009 at 23:13

48. @ Legeon
    
    "Don't forget that she left her husband and her son when she had just gained Nightwish."
    
    Someone doesn't know anything. :)

    Crystalium wrote on 26.11.2009 at 23:19

49. @ Morpheus
    
    "I doubt NW is her priority, it's a job for her that fills her wallet and gives her the fame she needs to make a solo album - and I bet (again) that this is what she has been aiming for when she joined NW - a band to get famous with, so she can get started with her solo crap, a chance she didn't have before she joined NW because no one knew or cared who she was. Disgusting, really."
    
    I bet for every band member Nightwish is a job.
    
    Disgusting? How can it be so disgusting if it's only your belief (not proved)?

    Crystalium wrote on 26.11.2009 at 23:23

50. "Disgusting? How can it be so disgusting if it's only your belief (not proved)?"
    
    1)It's not only HIS belief.Most people that their brains aren't connected with NW members mouth can understand why she joined.
    Or why do you think she joined?Because after all those years of loving pop music(and still does),she suddenly loved metal music?Or did she just join because she felt this urge to become a metal singer?
    And actually SHE has said that she LOVES that she gets more money now that she's in Nightwish.
    I'm not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing,but she didn't join just for the love of it.
    
    2)What has disgust to do with how many people find it disgusting?
    For instance,i find coffee disgusting,but most people don't.That doesn't mean that i have to PROVE that it's disgusting in order to be allowed to be disgusted by it.
    
    "Someone doesn't know anything. :)"
    
    She actually divorced when she joined Nightwish.
    And she left her kid to go touring for 2 years.What do i not know?

    Legeon wrote on 27.11.2009 at 13:33

51. Legeon. Hmm. The "girl with a hourglass figure( and probably with a mustache too)". "start to behave like a nightwish singer". I know one nightwish singer who got sacked behaving like the original nightwish singer. What Anette´s trying to do is being the opposite to the original singer. If she (Anette)become like the original singer 100% she´ll get sacked too.

    Wrathchild wrote on 27.11.2009 at 20:13

52. @ Legeon
    
    "It's not only HIS belief.Most people that their brains aren't connected with NW members mouth can understand why she joined."
    
    Highlight words "only" and "belief" and then you have what I meant.
    
    "And actually SHE has said that she LOVES that she gets more money now that she's in Nightwish."
    
    How typical from ONF. ;)
    
    "She actually divorced when she joined Nightwish.
    And she left her kid to go touring for 2 years.What do i not know?"
    
    Letting Seth's father to take care of their son when she is touring is not leaving him. She spent time with her son when she was home. Would it have been better if she took Seth with her? No.
    
    What Anette's divorce has to do with Nightwish?

    Crystalium wrote on 27.11.2009 at 23:31

53. Cristabel said:
    
    "@Almagest: Although I do not generally feel like you do about Anette/New Nightwish, I must agree you have a very good point there. It seems like Nightwish are pushing themselves more and more to satisfy the audience instead of trying to 'impose' themselves to the listeners without caring whether they're gonna like it or not."
    
    As a "true" artist (i. e. one who is only in it for the art/music itself), you do music mainly for yourself and look for an audience for it second. There's always someone who will like your music. As soon as you go like "but only a few freaks are gonna like this", you aren't really making art in the sense of "art for art's sake" anymore.
    
    Which would be less of a problem if you didn't built your whole image around pretending to do exactly that. A lot of classical music is light and "commercial" too, serving entertainment purposes more than anything else, and the composers could make a living out of it, as well. But they were straightforward about their commercial, mundane orientation and didn't nurse a "genius" image (that nobody would have taken very seriously, anyway - part of the problem is a good deal of incompetency and hypocrisy nowadays that clouds people's judgement). As I said, "genius" music is unique and not easy to get. (Well, Queen may at times have bordered to genius a little bit, but the general, uneducated and inattentive listener can't really appreciate that.)
    
    What already bothered me very early on with DPP was when Tuomas said he played the music to the bosses and they all loved it. That's not really a good sign in my book.
    
    Tarja had it much more difficult, her bosses didn't even get what kind of music she had in mind because it doesn't fit into any pre-existing scheme. Does that mean it is unoriginal? ;-)
    
    "I actually think it started with "Once", when the media attention they started getting got greater and greater. The composition/performances up to "Wishmaster" (included) were definitely their most genuine ones, when they used to do such completely personal things (I'm especially referring to Tuomas), never caring about the fact many people thought their music was gay or too soft of fantasy-oriented for a metal band."
    
    Not for a Euro-power metal band. x)
    
    ""Century Child" was probably the most personal album they've ever done and I think that's why there are people saying either that it's their best or the most shitty one."
    
    Well, personal to him. Musically, it's quite safe in comparison, despite some interesting song structures. Some of the songs are really bland.
    
    "With "Once" though, things took off, they started doing high budget things, overloading the music with an orchestra and choir from abroad, hitting the charts with mainstream tracks as well (I personally don't find Nemo any better than Amaranth, on that point)"
    
    Just for the record: I don't like "Wish I Had An Angel" at all and am bored by "Nemo". If at all, I only listen to a select few tracks off Once, and those are certainly not among them.
    
    "and simply raising up the standards and the whole concept of an album. I personally think the change was pretty edgy, definitely not bad though, not musically bad. But they've started getting more and more dependent of the audience, thinking about the result more than the reason for doing the music. And I think it's pretty much the same with "Dark Passion Play", maybe even more accentuated, since they needed to prove they could also succeed with a different singer."
    
    Yep. They couldn't REALLY take risks, only within closely circumscribed limits.
    
    "The Poet and the Pendulum" would have been a risk if it had been entirely instrumental on the regular album, too. That sort of thing is known to make the average listener tune out at once.
    
    "Anyhow, about the image of the "prisoner devoted to his prison", the prison, in this case, is the audience and the constantly high expectations from them, the impossibility of failing them,"
    
    Some sort of high level equilibrium trap ... you get or at least appear complacent because when failure is out of the question, true experimentation is too. True experimentation includes the possibility of failure.
    
    "the image they have to keep of themselves, since their importance in the rock/metal scene is essential nowadays. They're not the tiny band from the tiny city anymore. And from the point they've started doing music for the masses (>Once), I think this started to feel like a compulsory thing to them."
    
    Yep. Very, very bad if you want to be a genuinely creative artist.
    
    "Anyhow, I wouldn't say they don't enjoy their music anymore. The fact that Tuomas seems to be so fond of "The Poet" and his cover of Michael Nyman...you don't do a cover and insist to release it/play it(they used to do a bit in the end of The Islander+using it as an outro) if you really don't care about it. It's just that now they have to DO music and DELIVER it at high standards."
    
    Nothing is really surprising anymore or even enough because you get to expect them to outdo themselves ... although more in a "citius, altius, fortius" ("swifter, higher, stronger") sense that has more to do with a contest than art. Who cares if you can afford a huge-ass orchestra and a choir with 666 members? Creativity is fostered by constraints, not by having every means available you could only wish for.
    
    "And about Tarja being freed from the prison, I think in her case the prison was exactly this, being in a band with such high expectations from the audience, with such "strong" personalities, with constant need to please, always in the middle of the stress and pressure. I'm sure all of them felt that, but probably Tarja, having a harder time, did things that the guys might have misinterpreted and so the sacking occured. Anyhow, I still think Tarja doesn't actually do what she truly loves - but she does things in a way that's easier and less stressful for her - fewer concerts, smaller venues, not as many countries to play in, shorter tour legs. Now she also has expectations to fulfill, because she's not the Tarja of some opera choir or in a religious one, but she's Tarja Turunen, expected to do heavy music (which we clearly know she doesn't enjoy as much as classical one - that doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy it at all!), so she still has to give the audience what they want, but on a different level, less solicitant, less "grand" and more pleasant for her."
    
    I wouldn't say I KNOW that she doesn't enjoy doing rock music as much as classical music. At least she does a very good job pretending to be REALLY into it, if she isn't into rock THAT much. ;-)
    
    But some of her choices do mystify me and give me the impression that she doesn't really understand certain things about metal and the associated scene too well. I mean I can see that she's got a little fed up with Euro-metal and "happy bunny hopping over the field" melodic stuff. But how is Slipknot or In Flames (current) an alternative? Neither is really abrasive or extreme, let alone complex or original. She wields concepts like "metal", "progressive" and "experimental" without conveying the impression that she actually understands them. :-/ And why does she work together with Kiko Loureiro and Rata Blanca when she professes to be tired of the sort of music they make?
    
    (Only because Marcelo still likes it?)
    
    I think she chose to continue working in the rock/metal scene because of the creative freedom that it offers her and the classical scene does not, so I'm sure that she is really into writing her own songs. But if the label didn't put pressure on her and she didn't have to make a living off it, would her music still sound the same? Is she really only into American mainstream metal because she enjoys it better than any other form of rock music (that she is familiar with, at least) or because it happens to be a huge commercial force? Both is possible of course, but I can't help but wonder. Somehow it just doesn't seem to fit her - or her image at least. A rebelling teenager, yes, but not her. x) I suppose I still don't understand what makes her tick - what she is really like.
    
    Wrathchild said:
    
    "What Anette´s trying to do is being the opposite to the original singer."
    
    Whow. For once I agree with Wrathchild. Is the world coming to an end already?

    Almagest wrote on 28.11.2009 at 05:28

54. Oh, and at least Michael Nyman could prevent Tuomas from using his work, unlike Walt Whitman ... :-p

    Almagest wrote on 28.11.2009 at 06:00

55. Crystalium and how many X-mas she spent with her son after tour that she's already tired and spends X- mas on Hawaii orsomewhere?

    Isabell wrote on 28.11.2009 at 15:02

56. Crystalium and how many X-mas she spent with her son after tour that she's already tired and spends X- mas on Hawaii orsomewhere?

    Isabell wrote on 28.11.2009 at 15:02

57. @ Isabell
    
    "Crystalium and how many X-mas she spent with her son after tour that she's already tired and spends X- mas on Hawaii orsomewhere?"
    
    I'm not sure what you were trying to say but I believe she spent two last Christmases with Seth. I don't know why she wants to spent this Christmas in Thailand but it doesn't make her look like a bad mother in my eyes.

    Crystalium wrote on 28.11.2009 at 21:20

58. I don't understand why people think it's that bad that she left her son, but never say the same about, let's say, Marco. Just because she's a woman? There's a thing called gender equality. If she made sure there's somebody who takes care of her son, that he understands it and that being apart from her doesn't harm him severely she has the right to follow her own dreams, whatever those are. That doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't love him or something.
    Of course it doesn't make her the perfect mother, as it doesn't make her band members the perfect fathers. But if you say she's neglecting her son, say the same about every father/mother who chooses to be far from home for so much time.
    
    You know I'm not an Anette-fan or something, but these accusations really seem to be unfair to me.

    Earwen wrote on 28.11.2009 at 22:28

59. @Earwen
    
    I was one of the first people (here) to accuse her for leaving her son,so i'll explain why i believe that for her and not for Marco,for example.
    Or Jukka for example.
    
    You see,when these guys made families,they were already in NW(or Tarot,for Marco).They knew they would have to leave for touring,and they chose to follow that path.Their girlfriends or wives-to-be also knew that,so they had the choice not to get involved with them,and make a family.
    
    But Anette already had a family and a son when she applied for the job in NW.She already had a son when she took the job,and she already had a son when she chose to go touring for 2 years.
    Her family knew nothing about that.I mean that her husband had no idea that she would choose to leave for touring,before he got involved with her.She didn't know either,but when the time came,she chose to pursue her dream and join a world famous band,leaving her kid.
    
    One other thing is that it is proven that kids need their mother more than their father.I'm not saying that the father is important.Nothing like that.But mother is always necessary,no matter what.
    
    
    You see,i'm woman too,so i would never accuse her more just because she's a woman.And i never believed that one woman's only life purpose is to have kids and raise them.
    
    BUT she had a family when she chose to pursue her dream.Her son is now paying for HER need to be famous and rich.
    
    I assume now that some Anette fans with the brain of a teenager(typical Anette fan) will come up with the Disney-like crap about "following your dreams" and all that kids are told.
    No,it has nothing to do with dreams,because life and family comes first.No matter how much you want it,your kid and your family comes first.
    
    And i know that first hand.My mother was every day away from home,and i technically grew up with my father and my grandma.It left no psychological trauma on me (lol) but at least i understand how bad her son must feel.I felt bad when i couldn't see my mum for a night,i don't want to imagine how he feels.
    
    But eventually,Anette will regret this.She will understand that,when she'll need support and love,clothes and interviews won't do any good.Or her dream.

    Legeon wrote on 29.11.2009 at 17:03

60. "she has the right to follow her own dreams"
    
    No she doesn't.She knew she had a son when she chose to send her demo.She should know that.And she should have thought that she is not alone.So no,"her own dreams" count nothing because she is not "on her own".

    Legeon wrote on 29.11.2009 at 17:05

61. Legeon, are you trying to say that it's ok if Marco's and Jukka's kids are without fathers when they are touring? Why mother is more important than father? I'd call that sexism.

    Aeon wrote on 29.11.2009 at 21:43

62. @aeon
    
    I will copy what i said,since some of you 1)don't read whole comments or 2)don't get them.
    
    I'm not saying that the father is important.Nothing like that.But mother is always necessary,no matter what.
    (proven fact).
    You see,i'm woman too,so i would never accuse her more just because she's a woman.And i never believed that one woman's only life purpose is to have kids and raise them.
    
    Read comments more carefully,folks.

    Legeon wrote on 30.11.2009 at 10:25

63. I understand your point, Legeon, but saying she doesn't have the right to follow her dreams (= sing in a band and travel around the world) is cruel. She has not left her son. She is doing her job. Her ex-husband travelled a lot when she hadn't joined Nightwish yet so the situation is not new for him. And I believe her son is her biggest supporter and fan. I also believe that she and her son are in touch when she is not home, like Jukka and Marco with their kids who are younger than Seth.

    Aeon wrote on 30.11.2009 at 16:55

64. @legeon:
    You say you wouldn't treat her different because she's a woman since you are one yourself, but you clearly do, you just don't call it like that: you treat her different because she's a mother and not a father ;-) Sorry, I don't mean that as an insult, really not, but well, saying it's not because she's a woman first and then that it's because "the mother is more important" is quite contradictory.
    
    The difference is that you say you have a reason for that, which would be that the mother is more important to the child. But I don't think the mother is more important to a child when it comes past a certain age, and I haven't yet heard that's a proven fact. It's true, I guess, after the child is born, when she has to breastfeed it and everything, but once the child is a few years old, I think mother and father are equally important - given the fact, of course, that they spend the same amount of time with him. That usually isn't the case, and that's why most children are closer to their mothers. At least, that's what I think.
    
    I understand that since you had experiences that are similar to those of Anette's son and suffered from them - and I'm very sorry for that - you feel with him; but every child is different. And maybe he's closer to the father and being apart from him would be worse.
    
    About the comparison with Jukka/Marco: That their familiy already knew before is only true for the wives, not for their children. So if Anette's husband was ready to look after the boy on his own and thought it was okay she'd become Nightwish's singer, where's the difference? He could probably see better what that would mean than the wives of Jukka or Marco could, since NW got more and more successful and therefore started to tour longer within the years.
    
    Their children just grew up without seeing their father daily. Anette, on the other hand, probably had long conversations with her child, explaining him why she would leave, when they would meet again, that she still loves him and probably asking whether he could bear that. And I don't think she would've done it if he insisted on her staying home.
    
    I don't know, of course! Maybe she's just a heartless mother who abandoned her son without being considerate of him because of money.
    But by now, we don't have any proof that her decision wasn't made after making sure that her child wouldn't suffer because he understands it and is content when he's with his father. And since it's her private affair I wouldn't judge her before we have proof.

    Earwen wrote on 30.11.2009 at 22:29

65. @ Earwen:
    Forgive me for jumping in here, I swear I'm not out to make pointless arguments with you :) I just remembered this quote from a while ago from Anette herself...
    
    Question: Family or work?
    Answer: "That's a very tricky question with no easy answer. For me my son is the most important thing in life, I would die for him. But at the same time it's so important for me that I can work with the thing I love most, which is singing. And with that job comes sacrifices, like going on tour and leaving my son. It's the hardest thing in the world to come home and see my son crying and saying that his biggest wish in life is that I won't travel anymore. Still, I can't choose that easily. I want both and I have to say that both are equally important, but the choice I have made now is work."
    
    You can find the rest.... Here: http://www.metalfromfinland.com/interviews/365
    
    Apparently she didn't make sure that he was alright with her leaving to tour before she signed the contract... And I doubt that her ex husband was ready to take care of their son himself given that the audition and her getting hired came up quite suddenly. They couldn't have known it years in advance. He just did what a good father would do. Adapted and tried to make the best of the situation.

    Tainted~ wrote on 01.12.2009 at 02:40

66. Forgot to add... Lauri falling off the treadmill at the end of the video is absolutely priceless :D

    Tainted~ wrote on 01.12.2009 at 02:54

67. This is so impressive. First the 'haters' made Anette a bad singer, then she was bad person, bad performer and person with bad dressing taste/style and now she is a bad mother.
    
    I guess it's very easy to criticize people who you don't know and who haven't hurt you.

    Echo wrote on 01.12.2009 at 13:35

68. @Tainted~: Don't worry, I didn't think so :D
    I didn't know that quote, but it really seems to prove me wrong. If it's that difficult for her son, she probably shouldn't have done it, I agree.
    
    I still wonder, if Marco would say the same about this children - that their biggest wish is he would be home - people would say the same....somehow, I don't think so. But that what-would-be-if is quite pointless, so I'll stop this ;-)
    
    However, I still think it's difficult to judge something like that from afar, and that it would make more sense to criticize her behavior and singing in NW.
    
    But alright, it seems you were right after all ( and legeon, of course ), so I'll shut up now :D

    Earwen wrote on 01.12.2009 at 15:43

69. @ Echo: The 'haters' didn't make her into anything, hun. She made herself what she is. I actually used to like her when she first joined Nightwish and thought that she was a sweet down to earth woman. She then, unfortunately, proceeded to prove me, and a lot of other people, wrong.
    
    @ Earwen: No, no? No need to shut up :) I just wanted to point out the quote but then realized that your point was a bit different. Mind's been a bit slow due to lack of sleep...
    
    I do agree that if it is Marco or Jukka or another musician with kids people don't generally jump up and start protesting against them touring. It might have something to do with how they express their family lives to the media, actually. I think in general Marco and Jukka say that it's hard being away from their family but once they get home they look forward to seeing their kids, spending time with family, ect. People tend to sympathize with that simple explanation and accept it. In Anette's case, she's constantly claiming that she is a good mother, that she loves her son, that he is the most important thing to her. Problem is that we can see that going on tour with a band that she hardly even knew at the time was more important to her than her son. And now, that she's on break, she's booked some vacation so she won't even be with him for the holidays. Add in a quote like the one above and psychologically the situation just starts seeming different and she starts looking like the bad parent.
    
    Anyway, that's my wimpy attempt at trying to explain it. Legeon pretty much covered the other reason why she seems more irresponsible than other touring parents. There is definitely validity to your question and I've wondered about it myself but can never really fully get the grasp of just why it seems wrong in her case and alright in other cases.
    
    "However, I still think it's difficult to judge something like that from afar, and that it would make more sense to criticize her behavior and singing in NW."
    
    Yup :)

    Tainted~ wrote on 02.12.2009 at 02:20